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Applicants MUST purchase Trados/be Trados certified?
Thread poster: MariusV

MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
Mar 3, 2008

Hello folks,


I have a couple of “common-sense” questions regarding the job post (I recently saw in my language pairs):

"Each translator applying for this job must have Trados 2007 or be willing to immediately purchase this software. Your proven experience in translating bicycle related texts will be highly appreciated. The translators will be selected after evaluation of a test translation."

It seems a little bit strange to me, because

1) Why an APPLICANT (not a SUCCESSFUL applicant, at least) shall obligate to a "must have Trados 2007"?

2) What does it mean "immediately purchase this software" - I apply, spend time on their "test procedures", and BEFORE THAT I make obligations already and if I do not purchase Trados 2007 in 24 hours after they say "we would be glad to work with you - your tests passed", I will be "deleted" from the "lucky list"? So, if they are Trados promoters, to be such "inventive" is not fair, and, I think, to offer a job with a must/obligation to purchase some product before one starts the job, is even against the law.

3) I use MS Windows and office from the very first Windows created and released by Bill Gates himself (if I am not mistaken, it was in 1986). I also used Win 3.1, Win 95, Win 95, Win 2000, Win XP, even planning to install Vista. However, I NEVER ever bothered about these formal "Windows user" certifications (I know there are such). Why? Because I NEVER needed those papers having in frames on the wall next to my computer - I know what I have to know for my work, so, how is it relevant to my experience (where “experience in translating bicycle related texts will be highly appreciated” – ONLY APPRECIATED, not a "must")?

4) Moreover, I have never heard about any Trados certified EN-LT translator (I work in translations from 1997) and I give a 99 % probability there are no such people on proz (at least, those who received this job notification). Well, you might say, the poster has the right to demand anything, even a certified Notepad user university diploma A+++, or English into Lappercaunian native speaker translators living in the “planet Moon” as long as those requirements are not against laws or proz rules. BUT, respecting those same proz rules, I being a proz user, CANNOT reply to the poster offering my services as I DO NOT MEET one of his/her major requirements, let alone, I am not willing to purchase something for 1000 EUR just to be one of the many job applicants...

Does such a post make sense? I mean the practical side, not the formal side...

P.S. This is ONLY MY PERSONAL OPINION (nothing less and nothing more).


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 21:40
English to French
+ ...
I guess... Mar 3, 2008

...they will either never find anybody for the job or will get quotes from people who don't satisfy to their criteria. Tough luck to them!

True, though, that expecting a translator to shell out big bucks for something that may or may not get them the job is pushing our limits big time. Have these outsourcers ever heard of work ethics?!?


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:40
French to English
Reading between the lines Mar 3, 2008

I would guess that the idea is that if you pass the test and are deemed "successful" in all respects other than possession of Trados 2007, then you must buy Trados 2007 before they will actually start to work with you. How this requirement works in practice, I couldn't say.

Otherwise, as you say, it certainly seems a bit odd.


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The Misha
Local time: 21:40
Russian to English
+ ...
They just want you to use that damn Trados thingy Mar 3, 2008

What they are really saying is that Trados is a prerequisite for the job. If you don't have it or don't know how to use it , don't bother. It's their right, I guess.

What concerns those silly certifications, you guys seem to be really big on them in Europe. Bez Bumajki Ty Kakashka ... Just like in the bad old country, huh?

P.S. For those of you lucky enough not to have been born native Russian speakers, the silly old rhyme runs as follows:

Bez bumazhki ty kakashka,
A s bumazhkoi chelovek

or

Without a paper, you are a turd,
With the paper, you are the man.

Really, the more things change the more they stay the same ...


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"expexting" versus "respecting" Mar 3, 2008

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

...they will either never find anybody for the job or will get quotes from people who don't satisfy to their criteria. Tough luck to them!

True, though, that expecting a translator to shell out big bucks for something that may or may not get them the job is pushing our limits big time. Have these outsourcers ever heard of work ethics?!?


But can people who DO NOT meet the criteria quote (even if they have a 0.001 % probability to find someone based on their requirements)?

Just for the respect of the quoting rules whatever we expect to have:

Would be actually the same (at least from the formal side) if I post a job for EN-ES for automotive, demand the possible applicants to be certified Outlook Express users, all applicants to buy a Harley-Davidson, and then receive hundreds of emails of quotes for DE-FR science (lang pairs do not refer to anything special - just as an example)? Just a small exaggeration to the sample above and we get a total nonsense.






[Edited at 2008-03-03 04:02]


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Nadejda Vega Cespedes  Identity Verified

Local time: 03:40
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
What's the problem? Mar 3, 2008

They are honestly saying they need a job done in Trados 2007 and if you neither have the software, nor are willing to purchase it, you don't meet their requirements regardless of your qualifications, so what's wrong about it? Imagine you were to outsource a translation that must be done using a specific tool. Would you first screen the candidates based on their CVs/profiles, then review a pile of test translations, then negotiate terms and conditions, and only then tell your short-listed candidates they have been wasting time all along unless they either own or are prepared to immediately buy that tool?
As to certification, it is not mentioned in what you've quoted.


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The problem is the lack of common sense Mar 3, 2008

Nadejda Vega Cespedes wrote:

They are honestly saying they need a job done in Trados 2007 and if you neither have the software, nor are willing to purchase it, you don't meet their requirements regardless of your qualifications, so what's wrong about it? Imagine you were to outsource a translation that must be done using a specific tool. Would you first screen the candidates based on their CVs/profiles, then review a pile of test translations, then negotiate terms and conditions, and only then tell your short-listed candidates they have been wasting time all along unless they either own or are prepared to immediately buy that tool?
As to certification, it is not mentioned in what you've quoted.


Dear Nadejda,

Please read the "chronology" of their requirements/application stages.




[Edited at 2008-03-03 04:17]


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The problem is the lack of common sense Mar 3, 2008

Nadejda Vega Cespedes wrote:

They are honestly saying they need a job done in Trados 2007 and if you neither have the software, nor are willing to purchase it, you don't meet their requirements regardless of your qualifications, so what's wrong about it? Imagine you were to outsource a translation that must be done using a specific tool. Would you first screen the candidates based on their CVs/profiles, then review a pile of test translations, then negotiate terms and conditions, and only then tell your short-listed candidates they have been wasting time all along unless they either own or are prepared to immediately buy that tool?
As to certification, it is not mentioned in what you've quoted.


Dear Nadejda,

I fully understand what you mean, but please see the wording and the "chronlogy" of it:

1) Each translator applying for this job must have Trados 2007 or be willing to immediately purchase this software.
2) Your proven experience in translating bicycle related texts will be highly appreciated.
3) The translators will be selected after evaluation of a test translation."

That means first Trados 2007 (if you have one - OK), but if you do not - you have to be willing to purchase. ONLY then the proven experience in the field, and only then a test translation. Maybe if it is much better to tell clearly EXACTLY what you want to tell, esp. in a job post? It is not a science fiction book?

Yes, forgot to quote about Trados certification requirement:

Service provider targeting (specified by job poster):
Membership: Non-members may quote after 12 hours
Preferred expertise: Other, Tech/Engineering
Preferred specific fields: Engineering (general), Engineering: Mechanical = Mechanics, Sports / Fitness / Recreation
Subject field: Sports / Fitness / Recreation
Required software: SDL TRADOS
+++SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certified: Required+++
Quoting deadline: 5:00pm Mar 3, 2008
Delivery deadline: 5:00pm Mar 31, 2008

SO HOW a person who does not have Trados can be Trados certified? Even if he/she agrees to "immediately purchase this software", can be be immediatelly cerfitied?

All in all, what I wanted to say, the posters shall write clearly what they want - not a mess (from professional and logical point of view). + It is JUST my PERSONAL opinion.


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Nadejda Vega Cespedes  Identity Verified

Local time: 03:40
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
who is lacking common sense? Mar 3, 2008

So… What's wrong? First, Trados 2007. If you have the software, it's fine. If you don't have the software, but are willing to buy it immediately (= for this job that needs to be done in foreseeable future), it's still fine. If you neither own the program, nor are willing to purchase it, please don't bother searching your memory for previous bicycle-related experience or doing the test translation because the client can't use your services anyway. Could they have been much more clear? And certification certainly does not necessarily imply the person owns a copy of Trados.

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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
OK, but... Mar 3, 2008

Nadejda Vega Cespedes wrote:

So… What's wrong? First, Trados 2007. If you have the software, it's fine. If you don't have the software, but are willing to buy it immediately (= for this job that needs to be done in foreseeable future), it's still fine. If you neither own the program, nor are willing to purchase it, please don't bother searching your memory for previous bicycle-related experience or doing the test translation because the client can't use your services anyway. Could they have been much more clear? And certification certainly does not necessarily imply the person owns a copy of Trados.


From the logical point, they need both - Trados itself (or the readiness to purchase it for a POSSIBLE cooperation if one does not have it) AND Trados certification. Just from the point of view of elementary logics - if you DO NOT have that Trados you need to purchase it. How would you do the test then without having it? And test is ONLY a test - no one guarantees you will be "the lucky one" to have their project(s). One more thing - how relevant is that Trados certification? OK, say, one has Trados 2007, but DOES NOT HAVE that Trados certification - formally ONE CANNOT apply for the job as formally one DOES NOT meet the requirements of the job poster. Last thing - Russia is big with thousands of good translators only in Moscow. Maybe there will be hundreds of Trados-certified. But for my language pair (pro rata per population and the pro rata number of translators where the population of the whole country would be some 40 per cent of Moscow at the very best) they would be lucky to find half a dozen of EN-LT translators who at least have Trados and I have NEVER heard about anyone yet being Trados-certified. So, the issue is - WHY the job poster posts such excess and irrelevant requirements? What sense a job post makes if it does not generate ANY applicants who meet those requirements? What you said is clear, BUT this is NOT what I was having in mind.



[Edited at 2008-03-03 07:20]


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xxxBrandis
Local time: 03:40
English to German
+ ...
It is enough if you master a tool Mar 3, 2008

using which you can produce godly quality translation, certifcation is not needed, but it is an option for those wishing to go for it. After all CAT tools do not produce a translation, they are productivity enhancement tools, mastering which one would be able to develop TMs and specialize in certain domains and does not have to look around much for the right term etc., and would be able to translate 3- or 4 times faster while maintaining the document structure. All that costs another 2 cents and it is all in the budget. Brandis

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Claudia Digel  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 03:40
English to German
+ ...
I'm with Nadejda ... Mar 3, 2008

Hi Marius,

I think it is perfectly ok for them to ask for translators who have Trados 2007 or are willing to buy it. If they want a project done in Trados 2007 that's their decision, and if you want to quote for the job, you will need to have or buy it.

Regarding certification, this isn't mentioned anywhere in the post, and I think you misunderstood this part. What they are saying is that a test translation will be required and that the translator will be selected on the basis of this test translation. This might well be done without Trados 2007, at least they don't mention anywhere that you will have to do it in Trados. I would assume they want to test your understanding of the subject rather than anything else. - Whether you are willing to do a free test is a different story, of course.

So what they are saying is:
- They want you to use Trados 2007 for their job.
- They prefer translators who are experienced in the subject area.
- They will select the translator on the basis of a test translation.

I really don't see anything unlogical in this job offering.

Best regards,
Claudia


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Murat Uzum  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:40
English to Turkish
Misunderstanding Mar 3, 2008

I'm with Nadejda, The Misha and Claudia as they simply summarized the situation clearly. The client simply requests job to be done by Trados 2007. It's same as you need to have a PC to make programming. So I hope this misunderstanding is solved.

Kind Regards
Murat Uzum


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 04:40
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Is it possible to find a black cat in a dark room? Mar 3, 2008

Well, finding a cat in a dark room might be really difficult, especially when that black cat is not in the dark room. What I wanted to say that for my lang pair they are trying find a "black cat". Does such an action make any sense, even if, from the formal side, all is more or less clear (just the wording could be more exact). And to be "Trados-certified" is a MUST (sorry, I cannot copy the link of the job post as I cannot show the name of the outsorcer in the forum)...So, if they ask the applicants to be "Notepad certified"? Does such a requirement make sense? Also - in the job post text - I just read what it is written and sometimes it is hard to understand what people meant - they could simply write down 1:1 what they ment.




[Edited at 2008-03-03 10:51]


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Uldis Liepkalns  Identity Verified
Latvia
Local time: 04:40
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
There *is* a mandatory "Trados certified" field in the job posting form Mar 3, 2008

Hi Claudia and Murat,

Marius is right, I looked at the job and there is a mandatory "Trados certified" field in the job posting form and it was checked. Therefore I too cannot quote on the job- no button "Submit quote" for me, as the system tells me "You do not meet all the necessary criteria for quoting on this job".

Uldis

Required software: SDL TRADOS
SDL TRADOS Translator's Workbench Certified: *Required*


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