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Information on the TCR list (the original one...)
Thread poster: Laura Hastings

Laura Hastings  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:26
English to Spanish
+ ...
Apr 4, 2002

Hello,



Since it was suggested (on the TCR list) that we should have access to this information in a central place, I set up a web page on my site to give some information and ways to pay for the new private TCR List.



If you are interested please visit:



http://www.americantranslatorsgroup.com/TCR_Info_page.html



Laura Hastings

Moderator

TCR List


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 03:26
German to English
TCR List Apr 4, 2002

Laura,

Could you give me a short description of what the TCR List is?


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Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO)
Local time: 04:26
German to English
+ ...
TCR Apr 4, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-04-04 03:34, kmetzger wrote:

Laura,

Could you give me a short description of what the TCR List is?





As a member of the TCR list, you can make inquiries about translation agencies and other outsourcers. Once you have posted your inquiry, all you have to do is wait for a reply from other members who have worked for XYZ before; they will tell you about their experience with XYZ in terms of payment (and, sometimes, business) practices.



As a member you are also expected to contribute to the list by answering other members\' queries.



TCR has been a very valuable tool for me. I have been able, at many times, to avoid \"bad apple\" agencies - thanks to the information received through the TCR list. They say that hindsight is 20/20 vision; with TCR you can actually have 20/20 vision without having to go through some \"trauma\" first .

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Laura Hastings  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:26
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Werner... Apr 4, 2002

Hi Kim,



Werner has given a pretty good description of the list!



We also discuss and ask for advice about how to handle difficult collections and other topics relating to payment.



Chatting is kept to a minimum, but there is a certain freedom to post as long as a member sticks to the rules of the list (short list of 14 common-sense guidelines).



Right now you can join by sending an email to tcr-subscribe@yahoogroups.com, but we will be moving the list to a private host around the end of the month. We will then be \"new and improved!\"



Hope to see you there!



Laura


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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Re: (lack of) Information on the TCR list Apr 5, 2002

Dear Ms. Hastings:



Could you please give us a brief explanation as to why move a prosperous free list to a private (i.e. paying) server.

Thank you.


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Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:26
Flemish to English
+ ...
Topica versus TCR Apr 6, 2002

Competition, the cornerstone of our capitalist society is a healthy thing.

All internetservices started as a free service to lure people. Aquarius,Proz,TCR, they all started that way. Now they are all paying services. You do not \"have\" to pay, but then you will not be able to bid or to chech who is reliable or not. If all glossary-owners, CAT-tools,... on the net started asking money for consulting their glossaries, translation would become an expensive profession.

So, thank you, Peter Erfurt for your effort at http://www.topica.com/lists/transpayment.

To register: http://www.topica.com/register.











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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:26
Member
English to Spanish
To ivw and thisWaltz Apr 7, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-04-05 02:20, ivw wrote:

(...) why move a prosperous free list to a private (i.e. paying) server.





No matter how much I think about it, I fail to understand why Laura\'s time is not reason enough for you. The server issue, the possibility that YahooGroups will start to charge for their disservice... these are good enough reasons for making the list a paid service. But don\'t you think it would only be fair, to say the least, if any extra money went to Laura\'s pocket for her time and efforts? Don\'t you think if the list was prosperous it was at Laura\'s expense, and she would have been much more prosperous herself if she had devoted all that time to translating?



Quote:


On 2002-04-06 08:00, thisWaltz wrote:

(...) All internetservices started as a free service to lure people. Aquarius,Proz,TCR, they all started that way. Now they are all paying services. (...)





To \"lure\" people? Into what? Using great resources, benefitting from their existence, contributing to their growth? I only wish I were lured into this type of thing more often...



Andrea

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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
to Andrea Apr 7, 2002

Quote:


No matter how much I think about it, I fail to understand why Laura\'s time is not reason enough for you.





As I have said before in the other thread, I have no objections to Laura receiving donations for her time; my objection is her forcing* her decision on list members and changing a voluntary donation to a required fee to retain access to the list. This changes the list to a commercial enterprise based upon list members’ freely given knowledge.




*This includes her rejecting any messages sent to TCR about the new (free) list, started by Peter Erfurt:


Translation Agency Ratings (TransPayment)


http://www.topica.com/lists/transpayment/prefs/info.html


subscribe: transpayment-subscribe@topica.com


(currently 340 members)

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Laura Hastings  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:26
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Response to ivw or Mrs. Grundy. Apr 8, 2002

I first would like to say that this will be the last time I respond to an anonymous entity.



Please see:



http://www.americantranslatorsgroup.com/TCR_Info_page.html



This URL has been widely disseminated here on ProZ and elsewhere, I am surprised you have not seen it before. Especially when it right here above your messages!!



As for a REQUIRED FEE that is incorrect. There is NO required fee for the TCR list. I repeat, it would be best for you not to accuse me or anyone else of deeds of which you have no knowlege and that are incorrect. You might get in legal trouble that way.



Laura Hastings

TCR List

Moderator/Owner

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-08 03:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-08 03:08 ]


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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Required Fee it is Apr 8, 2002

Quote:


\"As for a REQUIRED FEE that is incorrect. There is NO required fee for the TCR list.\"



I assume then your message to TCR members, March 29, 2002 (quoted below) was just a slip of the tongue?



\"I\'ll just unsubscribe everyone else from the Yahoo list and invite those who wish to pay for this other service to join the new list.\"



To me, this reads, \"if you don\'t pay, you\'re out.\"

As for your threat,

Quote:


\"...it would be best for you not to accuse me or anyone else of deeds of which you have no knowlege and that are incorrect. You might get in legal trouble that way.\"



-- time will tell who \"gets in legal trouble.\" I personally don\'t wish that to happen to either of us, but nevertheless you are not in any position to judge my knowledge of anything.

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-04-08 03:58 ]

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Andrea Bullrich  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:26
Member
English to Spanish
To ivw Apr 8, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-04-07 22:02, ivw wrote:

I have no objections to Laura receiving donations for her time; my objection is her forcing* her decision on list members





I understand, then, that you prefer to force Laura to keep working for us for free (except for \"donations\"... do you take donations from your translation clients?), and paying for the new software & server out of her own pocket (unless the donations cover both Laura and the new expenses... hmmm...)

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Peter Erfurt  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 10:26
English to Danish
+ ...
To Andrea Apr 8, 2002

Hi Andrea,



A few comments to your mail:



While I agree, that it would not be fair, that Laura herself should pay for server space and software for the benefit of all, I strongly disagree that creating a paid for list was a NECESSARY move at this point in time:



1. Based on rumors that Yahoo would start charging for their services, a couple of members on the TCR list suggested a fee for accessing the information, to allow for moving to a private server. Rumors is the keyword here.



2. Based on a poll, in which only a few members of TCR participated, the decision to go private was made.



3. There are plenty of ways a free list could be run on the net, in the event that Yahoo should start charging for their services. I found a free home for the TransPayment list within 18 hours.



4. Thus it is Laura\'s sole decision to go into the investment in software and server space - noone has forced her to this move at this particular point in time.



Finally - and don\'t get me wrong on this - I think Laura has every right to do whatever she wants with TCR - charge or not charge - it\'s really up to her.

However, what I don\'t like is, that when I tried to send a message to the list members of TCR, that a free alternative now existed, the message was filtered out by Laura - and I never received even an explanation as to why the 1600+ members wasn\'t allowed to knwo this.



This - in my book - is not moderating - it\'s censorship.



Kind regards



Peter Erfurt

Moderator

Transpayment

http://www.topica.com/lists/transpayment


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 10:26
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
It becomes funny... Apr 8, 2002

how much time people spend FOR FREE, urguing if it is right or wrong to charge a fee for the TCR services. Well, thinking about it I mean, all they are against paying something for the services they receive are very rich, because they can spend a lot of time in urguing and gathering arguments for their meaning - but as we all know time is money. Even if we count half an hour for posting all the messages that mean they will not pay anything for TCR service, this time spend on writing posts costs much more than the particular service they are not willing to pay. This is nonsense. Well, if you want to find informations on the Internet, you still don´t have to pay for all informations, but the paying sites are in comming. For example, some two years ago I could use the Meyers Lexikon in Germany on line for free - today I must pay for this service. Sometimes it is good, but once I received TWO LINES of information - and that for 0,75 EURO! Or think about Britannica - this is a payed service too. And there will be more in the future.

It is right, TCR was a free list - but after all, it remains almost free - or do you all mean 1 Dollar a month is something worth urguing about?

And after all, there are memebers f TCR who don´t pay for different reasons and will still be allowed to remain members. Thera are enough members willing to pay.

And something more - it makes not much sense to start a new list - only a list with a lot of members - as much as possible - can be usefull. You can forget a list with three or four hundred members. With 1600 members thera are only 50% or even less active and answering the requests. It´s easy to calculate how many people will be active on the list with 300 members...

Best regards

J. Czopik


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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
see Peter's response Apr 8, 2002

Andrea,



Peter took the words out of my mouth and covered everything.

I have nothing to add.



Cheers,

Ildiko


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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
to Jerzy Apr 8, 2002

Quote:


all they are against paying something for the services they receive are very rich



No one was against paying, Jerzy. No one had a problem with a donation of $12. We have a problem with ultimatums and claiming rights to something that is public domain. It would be very useful if you could read the messages (both here and in the \"sister-thread\" of this topic) before responding to them.




And after all, there are memebers f TCR who don´t pay for different reasons and will still be allowed to remain members.



I believe I\'m not the only one who would appreciate some clarification on this.




You can forget a list with three or four hundred members.



I agree. Let\'s hope this will convince Laura to change her mind; because out of 1674 members only 158 voted in favor of payment and transfer of the TCR list.

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