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TCR is closing on Yahoogroups today!
Thread poster: Peter Erfurt

Peter Erfurt  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:36
English to Danish
+ ...
May 10, 2002

May I remind you all that Laura Hastings\' TCR list is moving to a private server today, and that from this afternoon this free list will not be available on Yahoogroups anymore.



After the move you are required to pay a yearly fee of USD 12 for participation and access to the archives, unless you have made other arrangements with Laura.



Fortunately there still is a free alternative - the TransPayment list on Topica. We are 588 members, and cover the excact same things that the TCR list. All you have to do to subscribe is to send an empty email to



transpayment-subscribe@topica.com



and you will get a one-click return mail with subscription info.



Hope to see you all there - we have a lively and professional list, where the spirit and humor is high



See you..



Peter Erfurt

Moderator

The TransPayment list





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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
I tried to register... May 10, 2002

with TransPayment list, but I haven\'t got any confirmation mail from Topica til today (and I was trying to get there more than three weeks ago!), and they didn\'t react on my mails asking them, why I can\'t get in. Instead, I get some \"advertisment\" from them.



According to TCR - it is nothing new we\'re moving today. Everybody on the list was noticed about it a long time ago! And the new list is already working! For those, who were not on the list, it does no matter if the list will be moved or not, and all other folks will be moved with - as far as I\'m concerned, I have stil full acces to TCR - even after moving, as it was before.



So I wish everybody good luck with the TransPayment list, which I can\'t acces for undefined reasons.



But don\'t make so much noise about TCR - as thera are no problems with this list for the most members. Youc campaign against TCR is only panic making and nothing more - it is my private opinion, and I\'m not related or affilated with Laura in any way!



Kind regards

and a lot of good paying customers

Jerzy

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-13 12:33 ]


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bharg  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 20:06
French to English
+ ...
No response May 10, 2002

I sent a subscribe email to the list more than 5 hours ago, but I still have no response!!

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John Kinory
Local time: 14:36
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Oh, yes ... May 10, 2002

Quote:


Fortunately there still is a free alternative - the TransPayment list on Topica. We are 588 members, and cover the excact same things that the TCR list. All you have to do to subscribe is to send an empty email to



transpayment-subscribe@topica.com



and you will get a one-click return mail with subscription info.



Hope to see you all there - we have a lively and professional list, where the spirit and humor is high





... plus occasional flaming by Proz moderators, which is permitted by the list owner but responses are blocked.
[addsig]

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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
alternatives May 11, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-10 10:11, trwiz wrote:

May I remind you all that Laura Hastings\' TCR list is moving to a private server today, and that from this afternoon this free list will not be available on Yahoogroups anymore.





Dear Peter & All,



With all due respect, I would not call the (late) TCR list Laura\'s list, I believe it belonged to its members, not to its moderator.



Quote:


After the move you are required to pay a yearly fee of USD 12 for participation and access to the archives..





It is my belief that the archives, i.e. information that was freely given for use by all cannot be suddenly co-opted and implemented into a commercial enterprise. The hijacking of the database is completely unethical. Therefore, I am planning to make a copy of the database freely available to any and all.

I would appreciate your input whether

such action would be welcome by the majority or not (the minority\'s reaction I can easily predict )



Quote:


Fortunately there still is a free alternative - the TransPayment list on Topica. We are 588 members, and cover the excact same things that the TCR list. All you have to do to subscribe is to send an empty email to

transpayment-subscribe@topica.com





Thanks for the excellent alternative, Peter!

(membership is now 622 and growing )



Best regards to All,

Ildiko



~~~

Ildiko Vamos-Wentworth

English > < Hungarian

Translation, editing, proof-reading

California, USA

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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:36
German to English
+ ...
May 11, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-10 10:11, trwiz wrote:

.....

Fortunately there still is a free alternative - the TransPayment list on Topica. We are 588 members, and cover the excact same things that the TCR list.

....

Hope to see you all there - we have a lively and professional list, where the spirit and humor is high



See you..



Peter Erfurt

Moderator

The TransPayment list





Hi Peter,

Yes, your list does have some lively exchanges. Since you have put in all this work setting up the list, you can probably answer a question:



The exchanges will be in the public domain and accessible to many people. Could there be any problems with giving opinions about the professional conduct of others? It is probably my conservative upbringing, but is it acceptable and legal to publicly make negative comments about others (translators or agencies)?



Thanks for any answers,

Ursula

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Peter Erfurt  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:36
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reply to Ursula May 11, 2002

You wrote:

The exchanges will be in the public domain and accessible to many people. Could there be any problems with giving opinions about the professional conduct of others? It is probably my conservative upbringing, but is it acceptable and legal to publicly make negative comments about others (translators or agencies)?



Interesting question

To me there are two issues here - a moral issue and a legal issue.



On the moral side, there is no doubt in my mind, that I would rather prefer things to come out in the open instead of hiding them behind passwords and closed curtains (as saidly it is now the case with the TCR list). By doing this, you open up for all kinds of rumors and a feeling of \"something must go on, that may not see the light of day\". I\'d much rather have an open forum, where people in a responsible and mature way reports - as objective as possible - the facts they have experienced, dealing with an agency. And as all agencies has the same right as translators to join the list, there is a genuine possibility to hear from both sides - and ultimately make your own decision if you want to work with them or not.



On the legal side of things - I\'m certainly not an expert - far from it.

BUT - take an example as the ProZ Bluebord. Same thing, really, isn\'t it? And even more public, since you don\'t have to subscribe to see the ratings (only the comments). And take the TCR list up till today - same thing.



As the moderator of the TransPayment list I have a disclaimer saying that I cannot be held responsible for views expressed by individual subscribers. Does it hold in court? I don\'t know, but I would like to think so. However, in my book every (wo)man is accountable what she/he puts in writing, so this is basially my attitude to the issue.



Kind regards



Peter

Moderator

The TransPayment list

http://www.topica.com/lists/transpayment


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Ursula Peter-Czichi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:36
German to English
+ ...
Thank You, Peter! May 11, 2002

You are right, other site owners sponsor the same communications. Anyway, your disclaimer is probably a good idea.



I can see how busy you must be running the list, yet you took the time to answer. Thank you very much.



Good luck to you!

Ursula


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
TCR is not the business of Mr. Erfurt and Mrs. IVW May 13, 2002

Dear all,

if you are members of the TCR list, so you are surely subscribed to the new list and getting messages.

All others, who are not members, can join the list - it is a free decision of each of us.

But those, who are not on the list should not make any noise more about what is happening on TCR - that´s not your business.



Mr. Erfurt wrote, that TCR is protected by password and this would mean there is samething to hide behind.

Here is the quote:



\"On the moral side, there is no doubt in my mind, that I would rather prefer things to come out in the open instead of hiding them behind passwords and closed curtains (as saidly it is now the case with the TCR list). By doing this, you open up for all kinds of rumors and a feeling of \"something must go on, that may not see the light of day\". I\'d much rather have an open forum, where people in a responsible and mature way reports - as objective as possible - the facts they have experienced, dealing with an agency. \"



But for me the situation with TransPayment ist just the same - I can´t join because Topica won´t let me in - so I can say the same as Mr. Erfurt said - you have got something to hide on your list!



Well - I mean it is better to stop this discussion, as it goes to nowwhere.

Kind regards

J. Czopik





One small supplement:

I\'ve been sent an email from Mr. Erfurt, telling me he does not keep anyone out of the list, and the subsription process is an automated one. Well, I DIDN\'T WANT TO SAY, HE IS KEEPING ME OR SOMEONE ELSE OUT OF HIS LIST. WHAT I WANTED TO POINT OUT WAS, THAT TOPICA IS IN NO WAY BETTER THEN OTHER FREE SERVICES, AS YAHOO, TOPICA, DOMEUS AND ALL ELSE ARE.

But nevertheless - I mean stil, we should stop to discuss about TCR and so on on ProZ. The points are made, there are pros and contras, but any further discussion will not improve anything - it starts to be quarrel and we begin to attack each other - this should not take place on ProZ!

Thanks

JC

[ This Message was edited by: JC on 2002-05-13 09:39 ]





One addition more: before last editing this message at 09:39, I send an empty email to join TransPayment list, as advised by Mr. Erfurt. It is 22:13 hrs now and I have stil no confirmation from the list. Not that I say somebody wants to keep me outside this list - that is not the point.

So much regarding the reliability of TOPICA.

Regards

JC

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-13 20:14 ]

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-13 20:15 ]


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xxxivw
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Dear Mr. JCz, May 14, 2002

Quote:


On 2002-05-13 07:38, JCzopik wrote:

..we should stop to discuss about TCR and so on on ProZ. The points are made, there are pros and contras, but any further discussion will not improve anything - it starts to be quarrel and we begin to attack each other - this should not take place on ProZ!





While I agree on the general idea of not trying to attack anyone here on ProZ, at the moment the issue of the archives is far from handled properly on the new list:



How can I access the archives of the group?


This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question. This is the answer to the question.


[new tcrlist / FAQs]



Therefore, I would like to recommend a temporary solution for all those left behind, stripped from access to the database.



Best regards,



Ildiko

[ This Message was edited by: on 2002-05-17 04:49 ]

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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Temporary solution May 14, 2002

Dear Mrs. IVW,



I HAVE NEVER ALLOWED YOU TO POST E-MAIL I SEND TO TCR IN A DOMAIN, WHICH IS ACCESSIBLE TO ANYBODY. YOU MUST REMOVE ALL EMAIL I\'VE EVER WRITTEN TO TCR IMEDIATELY.



And for you all information: until Thursday 09:36 hrs I have got no confirmation of subscribing to TransPayment list.

It does not matter, why it happens - I cannot use this service, and this is the point here.

Regards

JC


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Peter Erfurt  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 15:36
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
To Jerzy May 14, 2002

Did you get my mail with the 2 suggestions to how you could subscribe to TransPayment? (I sent it to you privately yesterday). I also suggested, that you should contact your ISP and hear if there was something blocking mails back to you from Topica.



Maybe you did not receive my mail, since I didn\'t hear from you?



Kind regards



Peter

TransWizards


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Pls. read my posts carefully May 14, 2002

as I told I was advised from you, how I can subscribe to TransPayments.

I get your email (many thanks) and I tried both - but no one works.

I don´t mean my ISP is blocking TOPICA, as i get some advertising from there.



But subscribing or not to TranPayment list is not the problem here. The problem is the attacking of TCR taken by Mrs. IVW, what I don´t realy understand.



And a bigger problem (a huge one) is, that she has published PRIVATE EMAILS ON INTERNET WITHOUT ASKING FOR PERMISSION. I realy do not like this.



This is my last post on this case. I don´t want to urgue anymore.



Kind regards

JC


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Jerzy Czopik  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:36
Member (2003)
Polish to German
+ ...
Just 2 quotes May 14, 2002

Mr. Erfurt wrote:



(Quote)

\"On the moral side, there is no doubt in my mind, that I would rather prefer things to come out in the open instead of hiding them behind passwords and closed curtains (as saidly it is now the case with the TCR list). By doing this, you open up for all kinds of rumors and a feeling of \"something must go on, that may not see the light of day\". I\'d much rather have an open forum, where people in a responsible and mature way reports - as objective as possible - the facts they have experienced, dealing with an agency. \"

(Unquote)



Mrs. IVW wrote:



(Quote)

\"We reserve the right to make the database available in the future, though we will probably limit access to it by requiring a password.\"

(Unquote)



In case of TCR you claim gaining access to the archives is possible only via password.

And then Mrs. IVW wants to give access to just the same databes - protected with password too. Where is the difference? Why something speaking against TCR should be good for another list (or something similar).



Just my 2 cents - and realy the last post.


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