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webpage translation with wordfast
Thread poster: Richard Robinson

Richard Robinson  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:02
Hungarian to English
+ ...
Jan 18, 2008

Back in October 2007 I translated a webpage in html (well xhtml actually) using Wordfast. I was so impressed with how easy it was that I bought a Wordfast license, and updated to the latest version of wordfast (5.52b). I use Word 2002 with SP3, and Windows XP.

Now (Jan 2008) I'm doing another webpage (this time the page is dynamic - created with php) and instead of skipping large chunks of the code and tags, Wordfast is trawling through it. This means that I'm simply using "Insert" to copy whole source segments into the target segment. That's the kind of work that Wordfast is supposed to save me. (Hmph!)

I believe I have prepared the file properly: I've tried converting it into simple text, and rich text, both manually with copy-paste into a Notepad document and automatically using the Wordfast tools. I have installed PlusTools. The files are in UTF-8 character encoding (both last October's and the current one).

Where am I going wrong? Is it due to the nature of the file (php-generated rather than hand-written (x)html) or because this new version of Wordfast doesn't behave in the same way with html files?

Any comments appreciated. Thanks

Richard


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gccAlex  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 07:02
English to Russian
Wordfast can do that Jan 18, 2008

Hi Richard!
Check out this topic here http://www.proz.com/topic/74908
Use forced segmentation (alt+shift+arrow down)
Works great. You just need to know what bits of text you need to translate.

Good luck
Alex


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 08:02
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
You can use tagging macro Jan 19, 2008

There is no tool yet that handles php easily. You can get Alexandr Okunev's tortoise tagger and modifie it for php in order to exclude the programming code.

http://www.accurussian.net/tagger.htm

But for smaller jobs the forced segmentation is best, if you know php.

Cheers
Heinrich


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Richard Robinson  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:02
Hungarian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
progress Jan 19, 2008

Thank you both. I've now used PlusTools successfully to Tweak the document and tag the .htm document - apparently I must have done this last October too though I really don't remember. My problem is now slightly different, and twofold, but I have makeshift solutions:

1. The PlusTools does very useful Tweaks and Document conversions, but as far as I can see all the Tweaks will save a document as a word document. Now, if you have a unicode webpage, the last thing you want to do is save it in Word 2002 which (as the Wordfast manual states) will not save into Unicode, so you will lose character encoding, making the document either very difficult or impossible to read.

Solution: I manually open the html in Notepad, save it with ANSI encoding, and then do the Tweak from PlusTools. Then I have my Hungarian webpage legible from within Word as a Word document.

2. I realise PlusTools is not really designed for php but I'm still finding it useful. However it's leaving in a lot of tags which I know to be part of old-fashioned html such as < li > and < div >. It's easy for me to copy these but I wonder if there's an explanation.

At this point I wonder if I'd be better off using Omega. Life is so short...

[Edited at 2008-01-19 01:01]

[Edited at 2008-01-19 01:02]

[Edited at 2008-01-19 01:02]

[Edited at 2008-01-19 01:03]


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Dragomir Kovacevic  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 07:02
Member
Italian to Serbian
+ ...
Omega and php Jan 19, 2008

Richard Robinson wrote:

At this point I wonder if I'd be better off using Omega. Life is so short...


http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OmegaT/ . Click php into advanced search in the body of the messages. OmegaT doesn't support php, since php is of a very multiple composition. Sometimes, as you noticed already, a conversion into /x/html helps. However, an attempt of a segmentation rule with filtering out the php tags in a file, can be done in OmegaT, so you work on a clean segment. D.

[Edited at 2008-01-19 14:19]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 07:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
PHP is not HTML Jan 20, 2008

Richard Robinson wrote:
Now (Jan 2008) I'm doing another webpage (this time the page is dynamic - created with php)...


That is your problem. PHP is not HTML. Sure, when a PHP page is served to a user's computer, it is rendered in what you might call HTML, but PHP itself is not HTML and you can't expect an HTML tagger to tag it correctly. And beware of anyone telling you that their CAT tool does PHP natively, because PHP does not have a single way of displaying text on screen.

What you need, is (1) how to record a macro in MS Word and (2) how to tag the document yourself, using regex find/replace. Both these are explained at the end of the Wordfast manual, if I'm not mistaken, but it does take some experimenting.


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Richard Robinson  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:02
Hungarian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
customer loses out? Jan 20, 2008

Well thank you all for the comments. I've finished this project now. After some initial hiccups the segmenting worked quite normally. I do think it ... strange, let's say... that Wordfast PlusTools don't enable you to save a Tweaked document in Unicode.

I other reservations too: what I've sent back to the client is a cluster of files with the htm extension, loads of tagging and some English text. When they update their site (with e.g. price changes etc) they will have to get the whole thing retranslated. But I imagine only PARTS of each page will change. Wouldn't they have been better off not sending me complete pages at all, but simply bite-sized chunks of text (in .txt or even .doc), each with some kind of label to identify it, that can later be fed into the php-generating program to be formatted? I thought that was the main advantage of dynamic pages: that one doesn't need to bother with formatting every single time a page is updated.


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Shane Wall  Identity Verified
Vietnam
Local time: 12:02
Vietnamese to English
+ ...
Poor internationalization of the website ... Jan 20, 2008

equals your translation problems.

If the website was constructed to deal with more than one language, then all translatable content would be in text files which can be "pulled" into the browser as required. You would have only received these text files for translation, and they would have little or no php code in them.

Client loses because they have to pay extra for your translation efforts working with code files ... you DID charge extra for working with code files, didn't you?

Cheers,
Shane

www.translingualexpress.com


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 07:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
How to do PlusTools with Unicode web pages Jan 20, 2008

Richard Robinson wrote:
I do think it strange that Wordfast PlusTools don't enable you to save a Tweaked document in Unicode.


Yep. PlusTools' tagger is not intelligent enough to check the character encoding tags on a web page and open it accordingly. So you have to help it along a bit.

1. Go Tools -> Options -> General and enable "Confirm conversion at open".
2. Use File -> Open to open the HTML pages (don't use another method; I think you are limited to opening about 8 at a time, but you can have 100s open at the same time).
3. When opening an HTML page, do not select "HTML" when MS Word asks you, but select "Encoded text" instead.
4. Now do the PlusTools thingy, and the encoding will be preserved.

I also experimented with converting the HTML to UTF16LE with BOM (because that is MS Word's preferred Unicode), but PlusTools isn't ever clever enough for that.


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