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Pocuradora vs. abogado

English translation: procurator / lawyer

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Spanish term or phrase:Procurador / abogado
English translation:procurator / lawyer
Entered by: Ross Andrew Parker
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

13:20 May 18, 2005
Spanish to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
Spanish term or phrase: Pocuradora vs. abogado
Context: It's in the heading of a letter from Spanish authorities to Irish authorities requesting that the latter provide assistance by taking a statement from the victim of an assault.

In the heading to the document, I have:

Procurado/a:
Abogado:
Representado:

... not completed with names.

This bit of the heading follows a reference to DILIGENCIAS PREVIAS PROC: ABREVIADO XXX / 2003
Ross Andrew Parker
Local time: 00:35
procurator / laywer
Explanation:
The figure "procurador" does not exist in England, the convention is to translate it as procurator, a person empowered to act for you. Abogado could be solicitor in British English but we usually maintain lawyer.

A procurador is like a legal secretary, so as to speak, they phone up the lawyer to make sure they do not miss deadlines and deliver papers to court etc.
Selected response from:

Tatty
Local time: 00:35
Grading comment
Thanks for all the detailed input. In my case I think I'll use legal liaison/lawyer (as the terms are not at all central to the content). I think I'd use a translator's note if I were to use "procurator". Thanks particularly to Rebecca, too.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +3procurator / laywerTatty
5 +2Prosecutor / Attorney
Henry Hinds
4 +1court representative vs. (in this case) barristerRebecca Jowers
4prosecution vs. defendant
PaulinaRich
3barrister vs. solicitor
David Hollywood


Discussion entries: 18





  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
prosecution vs. defendant


Explanation:
sug.

PaulinaRich
United States
Local time: 16:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
procurator / laywer


Explanation:
The figure "procurador" does not exist in England, the convention is to translate it as procurator, a person empowered to act for you. Abogado could be solicitor in British English but we usually maintain lawyer.

A procurador is like a legal secretary, so as to speak, they phone up the lawyer to make sure they do not miss deadlines and deliver papers to court etc.

Tatty
Local time: 00:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 55
Grading comment
Thanks for all the detailed input. In my case I think I'll use legal liaison/lawyer (as the terms are not at all central to the content). I think I'd use a translator's note if I were to use "procurator". Thanks particularly to Rebecca, too.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  skport: also agree with all Tatty's comments in the notes box above.
1 hr
  -> Thank you!

agree  Sheilann: Exactly.
1 hr
  -> Thank you!

agree  Claudia Palmier: The same opinion.
1 hr
  -> Thank you!
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Prosecutor / Attorney


Explanation:
Procurador(a) = Prosecutor
Abogado = Attorney (would probably be the defense attorney)
Representado = Client (would probably be the defendant)

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Note added at 30 mins (2005-05-18 13:50:53 GMT)
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I am using US terminology here, terms used in Ireland may be different so use the best equivalents if necessary.

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Note added at 56 mins (2005-05-18 14:17:11 GMT)
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I am not familiar with the difference between \"Solicitor vs. Barrister\" though I know it exists.

But in Spanish a \"Procurador\", at least in my part of the world, is a prosecuting attorney representing the government and seeking to convict the defendant.

Then of course the defendant would have a defense attorney.

My terminology is unlikely to be appropriate, but I hope this explanation helps.

Henry Hinds
Local time: 16:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 4935

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marcelo González
42 mins
  -> Gracias, Marcelo.

agree  colemh
1 hr
  -> Gracias, Colemh.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
barrister vs. solicitor


Explanation:
It looks like barrister and solicitor to me (and I've read your background references) but confident I am not .... the barrister would certainly handle the case in court and the solicitor would have the main contact and advise the client.

In Spain the legal professional who appears in court normally has to be someone other than the solicitor (abogado); this is the barrister (procurador). ...


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Note added at 1 hr 17 mins (2005-05-18 14:38:24 GMT)
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but the plot thickens ... look at this ....

Provincial. On 20 February Mr Tejedor García appointed Mr Marco as his barrister (abogado) and Mr Gallego as his solicitor (procurador). ...


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Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2005-05-18 14:42:21 GMT)
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http://www.worldlii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/1997/103.html (this ref. is from the European Court of Human Rights) ... to wit ....

11. On 12 February 1991 the investigating judge made a final discontinuance order (Articles 637 no. 2 and 790 no. 6 of the CCP) in respect of the two guardia civil officers accused by the ANPU. In the applicant’s case, he ordered an oral hearing and committed the applicant for trial in the Audiencia Provincial. On 20 February Mr Tejedor García appointed Mr Marco as his barrister (abogado) and Mr Gallego as his solicitor (procurador).


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Note added at 1 hr 25 mins (2005-05-18 14:46:06 GMT)
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...now this seems to hold water so in retrospect I would maybe opt for \"procurador\" = \"solicitor\" and \"abogado\" = \"barrister\" even though my gut feeling tells me it should be the other way round (hence my low confidence level)

David Hollywood
Local time: 19:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 882
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
court representative vs. (in this case) barrister


Explanation:
There has been much discussion in Proz about how to correctly translate the Spanish "procurador", and to my knowledge there is no real equivalent to "procuradores" in the Anglo-American court systems. In Spain the procurador files papers in court and keeps the abogado informed about the status of the case, and I do not believe there is any similar counterpart in either British or American courts. In the British system, the barrister is the lawyer who actually pleads a case in court, so it is the "abogado" who should be called "barrister" here. In other respects, I am not totally satisfied with "court representative" for "procurador", and I would appreciate any other suggestions from others who are familiar with the Spanish system and have come up with a better choice. (Perhaps the procurador's functions should be described in a footnote??) In the event it may prove useful for this question, I am copying below part of my prior exchange of ideas about translating "procurador" when the problem came up in a past Kudoz question:
I think it is important here not to confuse a party's "procurador" with his lawyer ("abogado"). In most legal proceedings in Spain it is mandatory that parties be represented by BOTH an "abogado" (lawyer/attorney) AND a "procurador", a law graduate who has passed an exam to become a procurador and whose job it is to represent (not defend) his client at the court (not in court) and serve as a liaison between the lawyer and the court, filing papers, checking up on the status of the case, etc. Thus, although a procurador is a lawyer in the sense that he holds a law degree, in legal proceedings he has a specific role that is totally separate from that of the abogado. (The Bosch Diccionario de Derecho defines the procurador as a person who "asume la función de representar a la parte, y ...colabora y presta auxilio al abogado en la recepción y entrega de escritos ante los órganos jurisdiccionales.") In view of the above I do not believe procurador can be translated either as lawyer, attorney, solicitor or barrister as it is mistakenly (in my opinion) translated in many bilingual legal dictionaries, or as "prosecutor" which in Spain is "fiscal." There is much confusion surrounding this term precisely because there is (that I know of) no equivalent in any Anglo-American legal system, so a term has to be coined or the translator has to explain the procurador's real functions in a footnote. (In Scotland, there is something called a "procurator fiscal", an officer of the sheriff court who carries out preliminary criminal investigations, takes statements from witnesses, etc., but that's another story.) Additional confusion may likewise arise since in some jurisdictions (Mexico) "procurador" does indeed mean "prosecutor" (i.e., "fiscal" in Spain). This distinction is underscored in Thomas West's Spanish-English Dictionary of Law and Business (p. 188) in which he includes both definitions. The real problem is trying to find a good translation of "procurador". I suggest "mandatory representative in court" but I would appreciate any additional (less-wordy!) suggestions that actually reflect the definition of procurador and distinguish him from the abogado.

Rebecca Jowers
Spain
Local time: 00:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1776

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  pkanji: Hi Rebecca, I agree with this. I have just spoken with another translator who informed me he often sees 'court representative'
2333 days
  -> Thanks pkanji. The main thing is to convey the idea that the role of the procurador is unique and does not correspond to the role of solicitor or barrister in the UK.
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