position de rente

English translation: revenue source

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	position de rente
English translation:	revenue source
Entered by:	Charlie Bavington

13:46 May 3, 2005

French to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Government / Politics / economic term?

French term or phrase: position de rente

The context is a discussion about the causes of strife and conflict in Cameroon. The full phrase:
"La gestion patrimoniale de l’Etat et le clientélisme ont aussi favorisé l’émergence de luttes pour le contrôle des positions de rentes (agricole, pétrolière, fiscale, douanière ; aide extérieure)."
(no idea why there's a ";" not a "," but no matter)

Clearly there's some kind of notion of "income-generating" here, and furthermore, possibly with not much actual "effort" involved (as there is with other meanings of "rente" such as "annuity", which isn't actually "earned" as such). Some other web hits for "position de rente" seem to re-inforce this quasi-"money for nothing" meaning, but I can't think of a suitable English equivalent. Any ideas?

Charlie Bavington KudoZ activity Questions: 44 (none open) (1 closed without grading) Answers: 1313
Local time: 08:09

controlling interests in (government/state) revenue sources

Explanation:
the bit in brackets could be left out as understood in the context, but it is clear and to the point

just a point about the ';' this might refer to the type of revenue source - the one before the semi c. being generated by the country, and after the semi c. being the cat licking the cream off foreign aid payments (a perk for only the most deserving and highest ranking officials).

Selected response from:

Connor
Local time: 09:09

Grading comment

After a week of anguish, have plumped for revenue sources (which also fits with a later similar but slightly different phrase I found in a related doc a coupla days ago). No longer sure that "positions" is in the sense of "jobs", so I've kinda by-passed that, left it vague :-) Thanks to all for their contribs.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +2

controlling interests in (government/state) revenue sources

Connor

4 +1

Revenue entitlements

Elizabeth Lyons

control of top positions in state-run incoming producing areas

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

the cushy positions

CMJ_Trans (X)

high-paying jobs/positions

Jonathan MacKerron

Discussion entries: 17

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

This was the proverbial cat with nine lives. Good luck Charlie :)

15:14 May 11, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

15:22 May 4, 2005

Like I said, the text is neutral in tone throughout. And for the record, the London School of Economics was for a long-time a veritable hotbed of marxist-leninist economic theory.....

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

Charlie, perhaps might want to bear in mind who the writer of your document is. He might very well be on the left....I'm outta here!

12:35 May 4, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

The people at LSE - also not a left wing institutions overall - also have many papers on it. They also use the term "unearned income economies" and rent-based economies and "resource-based economies".

12:25 May 4, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

The OECD is not left wing..they use the term "rentier income". I have not further researched it there nor will I. Rentier is originally a Marxist term but since it best describes a situation, it has been taken up by economists. Cheers.

12:18 May 4, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

The "rentier" question

18:27 May 3, 2005

I can see how "rentier" fits the bill up to a point. However:
1. I confess it is a new term to me and I�m hesitant to use it without *fully* understanding it.
2. The websites I�ve seen using �rentier economies� all seem to be coming from a very left-wing viewpoint (including the reference you gave which quoted Lenin�s definition of one, and the �parasitic...capitalism� quote) and this text so far (possible implications of the word �rente� notwithstanding) is neutral in tone. I�m hesitant (again!) about using a term with an implied value judgement.
3. As for using �rentier economy� or sectors or similar itself, I note that the French equiv would appear to be ��conomies renti�res� and I think that since the text is pretty well written, they would have said that if that was what they meant (altho� interestingly it seems this term is used without the value judgements that I perceive from the Eng equiv � that could be my misperception though).

And yes �income� was a mistake, I was really thinking in terms of my later suggestion of lucrative.

From which I conclude the following: up to now, all 4 headline options are basically variations on the theme of cushy/high-paying/income-producing positions (which are probably undeserved if not downright corrupt although the text doesn�t say as much) within the state apparatus.

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

I just wanted to show you that rente=rentier sectors of the economy and that the terms Rentier and rentier income have droit de cit�..,I would not put the word income in here..per se..it is just an illustration

15:21 May 3, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

The OECD says: rentier income sectors of the economy. References in my answer.

15:18 May 3, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

correx: positionS in the rentier sectors of the economy...,

14:50 May 3, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

Charlie.,sorry to be so long winded..actually I would take out income producing..and just say: position in the rentier sectors of the economy. This text explains the whole thing: www.yale.edu/leitner/pdf/ross.pdf - Similar pages

14:47 May 3, 2005

RHELLER

United States

agree w/ Elizabeth - she should post it as an entry :-)

14:26 May 3, 2005

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

Charlie..the reference is to State rentier economies.,leftist say rents, capitalists say income but both agree on the definition: a rentier economy..which is usually state run and state controllede. This is what is meant by Rente..,cheers

14:25 May 3, 2005

Elizabeth Lyons

United States

To me it sounds like social position based revenue entitlements, the kind that come as quasi-inherited according to political/economic influence.

14:21 May 3, 2005

Sandra C.

France

just thought about 'cash crop' ('culture de rente'). could you use something along those lines? I'm not an expert here, but I'm not so sure its annuity there talking about, more like high-income positions with little work involved: 'vivre de ses rentes'

14:14 May 3, 2005

Non-ProZ.com

14:00 May 3, 2005

Or maybe it just means "lucrative". One meaning of "rente" is "surplus" in an economic sense and clearly there's a connection with "rentable/rentabilite"...

Non-ProZ.com

13:57 May 3, 2005

I don't think that it means "payments" as such. I think that loosely, what it means is "the struggles for control of income-generating sectors (a-ha, wonder if that's the term I want? - just occured to me as I was typing) such as agriculture, oil, taxation & customs and external aid).

RHELLER

United States

are these government payments to individuals? to companies?

13:51 May 3, 2005

Answers

7 mins confidence:

the cushy positions

Explanation:
for the moment that's the only thing that springs to mind. The notion is indeed jobs for the boys.....

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Note added at 2005-05-03 14:02:53 (GMT)
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nice little money-spinners

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Note added at 2005-05-03 14:06:30 (GMT)
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sinecures

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 09:09
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 184

25 mins confidence:

high-paying jobs/positions

Explanation:
???

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Note added at 26 mins (2005-05-03 14:13:24 GMT)
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\"well-paid, protected jobs/positions\" is perhaps what the author is gettin at

Jonathan MacKerron
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 48

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

Revenue entitlements

Explanation:
To me it sounds like social position based revenue entitlements, the kind that come as quasi-inherit.

For what its worth; this is typical in underdeveloped/dependent 4th and 5th world socio/political/economic systems.

(Thanks, Rita)

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Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2005-05-03 15:08:04 GMT)
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This is typically tied up with territorial claims based on power and land-ownership political structures tied up with prestige and the issue of destabilizing/disenfranchising traditional prestige structures:, see: <http://wwics.si.edu/subsites/ccpdc/pubs/zart/ch3.htm> for a discussion of this, as one example.

Elizabeth Lyons
United States
Local time: 00:09
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

RHELLER: commonly used to keep ranks "loyal" - opposite of meritocracy

3 mins

-> And an attempt to preserve traditional influence - thanks, Rita.

disagree

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): it means position in the ministries or sectors of the economy that are Rentier as in Rentier economy..I think this translation is a palimpsest...:) I find it funny that you all have answers and yet do not consider this ...

3 mins

-> With all due respect, I see this as a favor we perform to the askers who are capable of discriminating amongst responses. The support we provide should stand on its own for evaluation and we should not need to influence that decision by detraction.

agree

Christopher RH: the idea of a "rent" being income from "property" (be it mineral resources, agricultureal resources or taxpayers) is certainly retained here

6 hrs

-> Thanks, crh :)

20 mins confidence:

control of top positions in state-run incoming producing areas

Explanation:
Charlie..

this is like rentier....state monies coming from income producing productive areas of the economy, controlled top-down by bureaucrats..,

the positions means top positions in the ministries for those income-producing sectors..I think they are all ministries...in any case, they are state-run enterprises

cheers

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Note added at 23 mins (2005-05-03 14:10:05 GMT)
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Like this: income in the sense of rentier economic models as talked about herein:

... Patterns and problems of economic development in rentier states: The case ... The Rentier state in Africa: Oil rent dependency and neocolonialism in the ...
cps.sagepub.com/cgi/content/refs/37/7/816 - Similar pages

Networked Socialism — an economic model for the 21st century... Africa, and Australia, but he does not distinguish Canada, or the US, ... Neither does the rentier state. The source of profits for the developed and ...
www.williambowles.info/sa/imp_reconsidered.html - 29k - Cached - Similar pages

No Blood for Oil:... The many economic models since 1973 that have shown how whole economies have ... However, for all the critique of the rentier, rent still is a decisive ...
www.iran-bulletin.org/ IBMEF_1_word%206%20files/No%20Blood%20for%20Oil.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages

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Note added at 24 mins (2005-05-03 14:10:55 GMT)
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Final: top positions in the income producing, rentier sectors of the economy..

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Note added at 34 mins (2005-05-03 14:20:32 GMT)
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Rente means: the \'income\" coming from rentier sectors of an economy...where the state controls everything and hands it out as it sees fit..It is a top-down, state-run form of capitalism..it is prevalent in Africa..and other places..the machine just churns out the income like from say Oil or Diamonds,,and then decides what to do with the money. Typically, in Africa, the people controlling these cash cows are overly compensated and do not always channel the funds into the places in the society that most needs them: infrastructure, health etc.

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Note added at 37 mins (2005-05-03 14:24:06 GMT)
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The rentier state is a state of parasitic, decaying capitalism, and this
circumstance ... and the natural resource base of selected developing economies ...
www.arts.cornell.edu/econ/75devconf/papers/isham.doc - Similar pages

[PDF] RESOURCE WEALTH AND POLITICAL REGIMES IN AFRICA (Comparative ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Your browser may not have a PDF reader available. Google recommends visiting our text version of this document.
... In this study we present evidence suggesting that African rentier economies tend
... The Rentier State in Africa. Trenton, NJ: Africa World Press, ...
www.nyu.edu/gsas/dept/politics/ faculty/wantchekon/research/regimes.pdf - Similar pages

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Note added at 56 mins (2005-05-03 14:42:54 GMT)
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second: fight for the control of [top] positions in the income-producing, rentier sectors of the economy..

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Note added at 1 hr 2 mins (2005-05-03 14:48:59 GMT)
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Second amended final: fight for the control for positions in the rentier sectors of the economy..

that\'s why it is position de rente..meaning in those sectors and they even list them in parens.

cheers

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Note added at 1 hr 4 mins (2005-05-03 14:51:12 GMT)
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positions de rentes= des jobs dans les secteurs rentistes de l\'économie...is what is means...

It would be a mistake to translate Rente as income...

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Note added at 1 hr 29 mins (2005-05-03 15:16:04 GMT)
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positions de rentes - these are rentier sectors of the economy in Cameroon: agricole, pétrolière, fiscale, douanière ; aide extérieure).\"

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Note added at 1 hr 32 mins (2005-05-03 15:18:47 GMT)
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... of estimates of the rentier share of income for twenty-nine OECD countries. ... At the same time, movements in rentier income over this period vary from ...
wwwx.oit.umass.edu/~peri/html/9/49.html - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

PERI Research : Individual Country Technical Notes for: Trends in ...... Individual Country Technical Notes for: Trends in the Rentier Income Share in OECD Countries, 1960-2000. Power, Dorothy | Epstein, Gerald | Abrena, ...
wwwx.oit.umass.edu/~peri/html/0/50.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

EconPapers: Trends In The Rentier Income Share In OECD Countries ...By Dorothy Power, Gerald Epstein and Matthew Abrena; Abstract: This paper presents the first set of estimates of the rentier share of income for twenty-nine ...
econpapers.repec.org/paper/umaperiwp/wp58a.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

SSRN-Trends in the Rentier Income Share in OECD Countries, 1960 ...SSRN-Trends in the Rentier Income Share in OECD Countries, 1960-2000 by Dorothy Power.
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=395503 - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

SSRN-Trends in the Rentier Income Share in OECD Countries, 1960 ...

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Note added at 1 hr 33 mins (2005-05-03 15:20:07 GMT)
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BUT here: I would not use the word income...because they are referring to the Sectors..rentier sectors and not using the word to mean the rentier income but I wanted to show you what the OECD says..the term rentier and rentier income have Droit de Cité.

cheers

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 77

7 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

controlling interests in (government/state) revenue sources

Connor
Local time: 09:09
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

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English translation: revenue source

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