Nierenlager frei

English translation: no renal angle tenderness

11:34 Sep 2, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical (general)
German term or phrase: Nierenlager frei
one of list in results of physical examination, items either side have nothing to do with kidneys.
Maureen Millington-Brodie
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:06
English translation:no renal angle tenderness
Explanation:
Yes, I know, we had this already several times as KudoZ question - and still I stand for a minority prefering "renal angle" in case of a physical examination.

see as one of many refs.: http://www.clinicalexam.com/pda/u_m_exam.htm

:-)

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Note added at 2 hrs 32 mins (2005-09-02 14:07:02 GMT)
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Looking through texts using "renal bed", I think it is (nearly) always used in case of surgical reports, pathological findings, issues of "renal bed hemostasis" etc. - that means, in other contexts than "physical examination". "Renal bed" to me is more or less directly visible during an autopsy or surgery or during laparoscopy.

To check this, just enter "renal bed" in www.scholar.google.com. Already the overview on search results will show IMO what I mean.
Selected response from:

MMUlr
Germany
Local time: 17:06
Grading comment
Prefer this one, thanks to all for help.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3no renal angle tenderness
MMUlr
5 +1No costovertebral angle tenderness (no CVAT)
Birgitta Bella
4No pain on kidney percussion / no pain (on flank and) renal bed percussion
Siegfried Armbruster
2 +1renal bed clear
Susan Madden


  

Answers


48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
renal bed clear


Explanation:
Nierenlager is "renal bed", I'm just not sure about the "frei" bit.

Susan Madden
Ireland
Local time: 16:06
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 19

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sarada Ramesh: renal bed clear
1 day 13 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
No pain on kidney percussion / no pain (on flank and) renal bed percussion


Explanation:
It has actually a lot to do with the kidneys. A so called kidney percussion test is done and the normal/healthy result is "Nierenlager frei"

Retention of urine with shooting pain in the kidney region. ... Bladder area is
very sensitive to the touch. The 4 6 glb of Belladona 30, four times a day. ...
www.indiangyan.com/books/homeopathybooks/ homoeopathic_remedies/r.shtml -

It's important, therefore, to use kidney percussion routinely to monitor the status of patients with indwelling catheters. To percuss each kidney, ...
www.ajnonline.com/pt/re/ajn/ fulltext.00000446-199901000-00020.htm

Percussion of the kidney as a diagnostic method was first described by John Benjamin Murphy (1857-1916). The test is rapidly elicited, but can cause severe pain. Considering acute pyelonephritis or acute renal colic, it is common practice to perform fist percussion of the kidney, yet its diagnostic value is unknown. Finnish study results in 1998 suggest that in acute renal colic loin tenderness and erythrocyturia are more significant signs than renal tenderness. There is no scientific evidence for determining renal tenderness in diagnosing urinary tract infections and urolithiasis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&d...


Student correctly positions the model for kidney percussion. 2. Student correctly positions one hand at the costovertebral angle. ...
sitemaker.umich.edu/umat/files/362_lab_manual.doc

*Special note should be made if percussion produces pain, ... Kidney pain, most
commonly associated with infection, can be elicited on direct examination if ...
medicine.ucsd.edu/clinicalmed/abdomen.htm -

Palpation should be gentle but deep if there is no pain. Ask the patient to take
a deep breath ... Percussion Percussion of the abdomen can be very useful. ...
www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40024881

no hepatosplenomegaly. nl bowel tones. ___________________________. Back:.
no flank tenderness no pain on percussion _____________________________________ ...
www.crc.washington.edu/docs/GCRC_history_physical.pdf

... renal bed. "no pain on percussion of the renal bed" at: http://www.medscape.com/
viewarticle/410200_4 "pain on flank and renal bed percussion" at: http ...
translatortips.proz.com/kudoz/566779 - 30k - Zusätzliches Ergebnis

pain on flank and renal bed percussion _ another option

Siegfried Armbruster
Germany
Local time: 17:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 766
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
no renal angle tenderness


Explanation:
Yes, I know, we had this already several times as KudoZ question - and still I stand for a minority prefering "renal angle" in case of a physical examination.

see as one of many refs.: http://www.clinicalexam.com/pda/u_m_exam.htm

:-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 32 mins (2005-09-02 14:07:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looking through texts using "renal bed", I think it is (nearly) always used in case of surgical reports, pathological findings, issues of "renal bed hemostasis" etc. - that means, in other contexts than "physical examination". "Renal bed" to me is more or less directly visible during an autopsy or surgery or during laparoscopy.

To check this, just enter "renal bed" in www.scholar.google.com. Already the overview on search results will show IMO what I mean.

MMUlr
Germany
Local time: 17:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 841
Grading comment
Prefer this one, thanks to all for help.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Gisela Greenlee: or "no CVA tenderness", the American physician's don't like/understand "renal bed" at all!
20 mins
  -> yes, thank you - CVA costovertebral angle, isn't it?

agree  Anne Schulz
46 mins
  -> danke!

agree  Birgitta Bella: Gisela- you are absolutely correct. I am a physician assistant and I'm also bilingual in German and English. it HAS to be translated as CVAT. NO ONE in Medicine in the US will have any idea was a renal bed is in the context of physical examination.
1663 days
  -> Yes, you are rigth. CVAT is used far more commonly in the context of (suspicion of) renal diseases that "renal angle" T. :-) (Ghits in .edu sites: renal a.t. 6 vs. cvat around 200)
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1663 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
No costovertebral angle tenderness (no CVAT)


Explanation:
renal bed is what is left after the kidney is removed during surgery. This is actually on eof my pet pieves....when I read a translated report as a physician assistant and I see renal bed instead of CVAT it makes me cringe because I know no one else will understand what is meant and they will just ignore what they don't understand....medicine in the US is very stressful and there isn't time to look up funny translations.

I want to remind you all that the purpose of a translation is for the reader to understand what is being said in a different language but in the same context. Translation is not a science in itself....it's a tool. And as a tool it is only as good as what the person understands on the other end.
As a PA having worked in 6 different specialties in the US I am telling you that the ONLY time I EVER see "renal bed" in context of a physical examination is from a bad German translation!
Sorry, but its true.

Please do your physician readers a favor and translate what they understand not what you think the dictionary says!!!!

Thank you from all of them!!! :-)

Birgitta Bella
Local time: 08:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lirka
3814 days
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