NAKED TRANSFER

Portuguese translation: transferência... see below

19:08 Jul 1, 2007

English to Portuguese translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Cinema, Film, TV, Drama

English term or phrase: NAKED TRANSFER

I have a question about an expression that was supposedly used by Eisenstein (Sergei Eisenstein, the film director). The expression is "naked transfer", he supposedly used it to refer to themes or motives that explode their medium, for example, an intensity like rage, that explodes the simple visual forms and becomes moviment...
I say supposedly because I have not yet found any reference to his using this term - not in internet anyways.
So, does someone know if he really used it? And what is more important, can someone give me suggestions for a translation? I need to translate it to Portuguese, but suggestions in Spanish or even Franch or Italian would also be welcome...

magomez

Portuguese translation:transferência... see below

Explanation:
Don't consider it as 100% answer. It is a suggestion. I think that it is not Eisenstein himself, it is about him and the word "naked" is used as a metaphore.

I checked my understanding of "naked" as a legal term (lacking confirmation or validation, Black's Low dictionnary) and I think it was a good idea to check but it is not right.

I think that the meaning of "naked" is the same as in "naked truth" or close to it - as Vladimir said, something like "without make-up". I would say that "naked" is close to "art brut" in this sense of the word:

http://www.artbrut.ch/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_Art

Remember, Eisenstein often used non professional actors and relied the most on the montage of dominants.

Compared to others he wrote a lot about his understanding of movie-making; I found some sites with lists of his quotations but nothing close to your "naked transfer".

Here is one of the best links in English I found yesterday:

http://www.esotericrabbit.com/essays/kino_fist.html

Brief, I do not have any advice for you with the translation to Portuguese, but if I had to translate it in French I would say "transfert brut" or "transfert des émotions à l'état brut".

I also think that a bit more of context would certainly help to understand what is meant by this expression.

If you can wait, there is an additional option - I do it simetimes when I am lost: find a forum of cinema history lovers and ask them (I mean in Russian). But: if the expression is invented outside of Russia, it might be unknown.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2007-07-03 14:32:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

magomez , I only checked the meaning of "naked" to make sure that I understand it right myself, English is my third language. The meaning is in brackets. And I came to the same conclusion as you: it does not fit to your context. By the way, about the context, does it bother you to give few sentences? Maybe I have been looking for wrong words in Russian. Maybe your author is known and translated in Russian, then I will find something. Or is it a secret?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2007-07-10 14:10:09 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you magomez, I would not expect being rewarded for this. I just spent some time going through interesting documents. Thanks and good luck with Russian cinema history.

Selected response from:

Katia Gygax
Local time: 18:51

Grading comment

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3

transferência... see below

Katia Gygax

Discussion entries: 12

magomez

ASKER

01:17 Jul 3, 2007

To Richard: No, I don´t see this button but it is a good idea, I am new here but I will search for this "device", thanks!
And I will sure wait Vladimir!Take your time, and thank you!!

R. Alex Jenkins

R. Alex Jenkins

Brazil

22:42 Jul 2, 2007

I don't know whether you can see the 'Track' button here?? When a question is unusual or difficult or interesting etc..other translators can use this option to keep track of what's going on, sometimes responding at a later date. It's very useful. :))))

Vladimir Baranich

Vladimir Baranich

19:45 Jul 2, 2007

Oh! Good idea came to me! I'll post this to Russian KudoZ. Please wait one more day.

Vladimir Baranich

Vladimir Baranich

19:42 Jul 2, 2007

I simply asked and shared what I know. It would be interesting for me as well. I am not connoisseur of Eisenstein's legacy, so I can't give advises. Please do as you consider the best.

magomez

ASKER

19:21 Jul 2, 2007

tiping error... consacrated...
And Vladimir, you really couldn´t find anything in russian that Eisenstein could have used, and came from a market/law terminology? A correlate to "naked transfer of property", so to speak...
If not, I guess I will end the post and use "transferência livre", it seems to me the best suggestion. Would you agree?
Thank you all again...

magomez

ASKER

19:15 Jul 2, 2007

You really got it wrong. There are two posts on this term because, here, I asked about the term in the field of cinema. Since it is also used in Law I posted it again to reach the translators that are more used to dealing with law terms, etc.
And I don't think someone is ignoring. Quite the contrary, I was really amazed to be getting answers so quickly!
As to be the person who defines the term in portuguese, I would have no problem with that. But, as you know, as translators it is one of our jobs to find out if there is already a consagrated translation of a term - which does not seem to be the case here, and when not try to find another translations in another languages to further clarify the meaning - which is why I asked for suggestion in other languages as well - or what would be really important, the term in its original language - here russian - which does not seem to have worked either.
But thanks, I can see you're trying to help!

R. Alex Jenkins

R. Alex Jenkins

Brazil

16:29 Jul 2, 2007

The lack of answers does not mean that translators are ignoring you. On the contrary! You don't need to double post. Sometimes we need to be pioneers and create those terms! Looks like you could be the person who defines "Naked Transfer" into Portuguese:)

magomez

ASKER

16:01 Jul 2, 2007

Well, my friend, if it is a "fact" that there is no hard translation of this term or not, is one of the questions here. That there are no other examples was already pointed out in my question.
So, in short, have you guessed this "fact" or do you have any other reason to believe it that would help me ? I would most welcome that, since I posted this question exactly to find out if someone - who has experience in the field - had read about Eisenstein using this term, an equivalent, or not.
As to a literal translation, I guess I will use one, not the one bellow, but you can read my answer to Mr. Handler as to why.
Thank you very much for your help.

R. Alex Jenkins

R. Alex Jenkins

Brazil

05:05 Jul 2, 2007

The fact seems to be my friend that there is no hard translation of this phrase from English into Portuguese - there simply isn't one (yet). As Mr. Handler has pointed out below, there are no examples and you should accept a literal translation here.

magomez

ASKER

04:03 Jul 2, 2007

I am sure that it is naked transfer, and it does sound strange to me too, but makes sense when you consider that they relate to the transfers of themes or motives from one medium to other.
I have found many allusions to this term in relation to transfers of property. It seems to be a simple, direct transfer between private parties. A possible translation into portuguese could be then "transferencia direta" or something like that, I must research it further.
Anyways it may be that Eisenstein used a russian correlate term (that refers to direct transfer of property between private parties...) and this term has been translated into english as "naked transfer". It is a wild guess, but when you think of the themes moving from visual to another medium it does make sense...
So, would you know the Russian term for this? It could help, maybe... The exact portuguese term would be even better, of course!

magomez

ASKER

Yes... Unfortunately...

03:31 Jul 2, 2007

Vladimir Baranich

Vladimir Baranich

21:46 Jul 1, 2007

Are you sure about "transfer"? Because I never heard of "Naked Transfer" in Russian. I'm afraid, this term came out from indirect translations. At least I can't think of anything similar in Russian. There is "naked truth", but no "Naked Transfer".

Answers

1 day 12 hrs confidence:

naked transfer

transferência... see below

Explanation:
Don't consider it as 100% answer. It is a suggestion. I think that it is not Eisenstein himself, it is about him and the word "naked" is used as a metaphore.

I checked my understanding of "naked" as a legal term (lacking confirmation or validation, Black's Low dictionnary) and I think it was a good idea to check but it is not right.

I think that the meaning of "naked" is the same as in "naked truth" or close to it - as Vladimir said, something like "without make-up". I would say that "naked" is close to "art brut" in this sense of the word:

http://www.artbrut.ch/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outsider_Art

Remember, Eisenstein often used non professional actors and relied the most on the montage of dominants.

Compared to others he wrote a lot about his understanding of movie-making; I found some sites with lists of his quotations but nothing close to your "naked transfer".

Here is one of the best links in English I found yesterday:

http://www.esotericrabbit.com/essays/kino_fist.html

Brief, I do not have any advice for you with the translation to Portuguese, but if I had to translate it in French I would say "transfert brut" or "transfert des émotions à l'état brut".

I also think that a bit more of context would certainly help to understand what is meant by this expression.

If you can wait, there is an additional option - I do it simetimes when I am lost: find a forum of cinema history lovers and ask them (I mean in Russian). But: if the expression is invented outside of Russia, it might be unknown.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day19 hrs (2007-07-03 14:32:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

magomez , I only checked the meaning of "naked" to make sure that I understand it right myself, English is my third language. The meaning is in brackets. And I came to the same conclusion as you: it does not fit to your context. By the way, about the context, does it bother you to give few sentences? Maybe I have been looking for wrong words in Russian. Maybe your author is known and translated in Russian, then I will find something. Or is it a secret?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2007-07-10 14:10:09 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you magomez, I would not expect being rewarded for this. I just spent some time going through interesting documents. Thanks and good luck with Russian cinema history.

Katia Gygax
Local time: 18:51
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Native in Russian

Russian,

Native in French

French
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Hi Katia, I did not quite understnad what you meant when you said you checked the meaning of "naked" as a legal term. What was not right? Anyway, I should indeed have explained it more thoroughly. I did not find any definition of naked as a law term, only in market terminology, but from a source which I am not sure I can trust, and that does not seem to have much to do with the meaning here. What I have found were innumerous references to "naked transfer" in relation to property transfer in the internet. The best "definition" if I can call it so, I have found in this document: http://law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1017&context=uiuclwps About your suggestion I do like it, thanks. And I agree it may be that the only methaphor made is related to naked, and not "naked transfer' as a term. It may be, I don't know either, and the author says explicitly that Eisesntein called these transpositions of motifs or themes from one medium (visual, for example) to other (sound) "naked transfers" using quotation marks. Anyway, it is not a very important term in the text, I would be mortified if I translated the term wrong, but it seems that this term is either incorrect, or just not really widely known. I will try in forums of cinema history lovers it is a good idea, since I still have time.

Asker: If you could ask around too I would be most grateful. Although it is not a key term for my translation I am personally really curious about it now!

Asker: I don't believe the author is known. The text is no secret, I guess, but I would have to ask the person who contracted me first... Anyway, I will try in the cinema forums as you said, but I will be out for some time, unable to respond to questions here. So if you have any other idea please post it, but I believe I will only be able to answer much later. I will leave the question open until I hear from you, the cinema forums or else. And I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:

ProZ.com term search

Search millions of term translations

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

More languages...