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English language (monolingual) [PRO] Bus/Financial - Business/Commerce (general)
English term or phrase:help with sentence structure
X shall not release any confidential information relating to Y to any person outside X and its associate firms and outside consultants or lawyers unless Y expressly consents to such release of information.
Does it mean X is allowed to release information to outside lawyers and consultants or not?
Explanation: "X shall not release any confidential information relating to Y to any person outside {X and its associate firms and outside consultants or lawyers}"
The two 'outsides' are being used in quite different ways here — and do note that in EN, 'outside' never means 'except' (as it does in some languages).
The first 'outside' means that information may not be released to anyone who is not in a specific group of people (as I've indicated by my { } above).
The second outside qualifies 'lawyers and consultants', and refers to lawyers and consultants who might be working for X, but not actually form part of the company itself.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 21:48:11 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Well, 'allowed', actually! Apologies for the typo, I got a bit carried away with my L's :-)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 21:49:04 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The first 'outside' means 'other than', in the sense of 'inside / outside a group'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 21:54:03 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
It really isn't tricky at all, this is straightforward EN, and Lorenab has got it right in her/his discussion posts.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-25 21:59:26 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I should clarify soemthing I said above:
"note that in EN, 'outside' never means 'except'"
What I should have said was that it can (almost) never be used as a direct replacement, which is a trap for the unwary, especially anyone coming from languages where the two may be almost interchangeable synonyms.
Of course, 'outside' can have the sense of 'not including', which is basically the same idea as 'except' — but it's only used this way where the implication that there is a set of 'somethings' that it is possible to be either inside or outside.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 9 hrs (2012-09-26 06:12:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Just try this simple experiment: replace the second 'outside' with 'external'
"X shall not release any confidential information relating to Y to any person outside X and its associate firms and external consultants or lawyers"
so the general consensus seems to be - no release of information to anyone except to people inside X and its associates and lawyers and consultants. Thank you very much for your explanations, everyone!
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there: there is simply no need to ask the customer, the meaning is quite clear and unambiguous. You can be 'outside' (X and a group of people), but you can't be 'outside' a lawyer — though you can be 'an outside lawyer' (because, again, they are 'outside X')
This is very straightforward: it means X shall NOT release information relating to Y TO 1) any person outside X and its associate firms and 2) outside consultants or lawyers unless Y expressly consents to such release of information.
At the very least, this merits a query to the end client/author!
refers to the use of outside lawyer and consultants, the first outside means who is not/except and it includes all those parties...notice the use of AND, X and associate firms AND etc
which is used twice, so X, associate firms, consultants and lawyers are all "inside". Any person who is not X or an associate firm, or consultants or lawyers shall not receive any confidential information unless Y consents Outside in this case meaning "who is not"
Effie Simiakaki (X)
Greece
21:17 Sep 25, 2012
This is really tricky...
Effie Simiakaki (X)
Greece
21:17 Sep 25, 2012
But if "any persons" covered outside consultants and lawyers, why wouldn't the text-contract just say "strictly to anybody"? I mean why would it make these differentiations?
Thank you, Effie. I see your point. I just wondered whether "any persons" not already covers "outside consultants and lawyers"?
Effie Simiakaki (X)
Greece
21:05 Sep 25, 2012
I understand that X and its associate firms are already aware of Y's confidential information. What is forbidden however, is for X to disclose information about Y to outside consultants and lawyers (without Y consenting to this disclosure)
thank you very much for your answers. My problem with this sentence is that you could read it like that (at least I do): X is not allowed to release information to any person outside: [ X and its associate firms and ... consultants and lawyers]. This reading might imply that the c&l's are exempt from the confidentiality restriction. Pls correct me if i 'm wrong.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
3 mins confidence:
not
Explanation: All the restrictions come before *unless.*
Trudy Peters United States Local time: 09:34 Works in field Native speaker of: German, English PRO pts in category: 20
