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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Human Resources
Dutch term or phrase:breng- en haalplicht
I've hit a blank here. Can't think of suitable terms to cover this. The source is a workbook on business management practices. "Het jaar wordt afgesloten met een functionerings- en/of een beoordelingsgesprek dat als input dient voor een eventuele aanpassing van de beloning. De essentie van de gesprekkencyclus is het jaarlijks afstemmen van de **breng- en haalplicht** tussen de werkgever en de werknemer. Wat kan en mag je van de ander verwachten, wat krijg je hiervoor terug en gaat dit leiden tot ‘betere’ prestaties."
Well, so much for German "Gründlichkeit" then... On the other hand: when German engineers make a mistake, it's called a "Fehler". When British engineers go about mechanics in the most peculiar way, it's called "Tradition"! Fehlers can be repaired, traditions however... there's still hope for you! ;-)
OK, I finally got around to making a photo album on Google Plus, including some with my drawings/art, etc.: https://plus.google.com/photos/114708266150073325252/albums (look in the albums titled: 'People', 'The Many Faces of Celso Emilio Ferreiro', 'Drawings' and 'Self-portraits')
However, I do have quite a few drawings/paintings/collages of my own kicking around which I'm currently in the process of sorting through to one day stick on a photo website or something. Stay tuned!
Ja, en je kan in het invulveld "mutual obligations" typen, dan komt het zo ook in het glossarium te staan.
Frank van Thienen (X)
Canada
ASKER
back online
09:53 Aug 17, 2013
lots of discussion - thanks to all - while my internet connection failed here in Noord Holland (visiting rellies). KudoZ Rules Question for the experienced among you: can I select Freek's entry, based on his footnote "mutual obligations" the way it's set up at the moment?
Nice avatar! Are you sure you used to be a (flunking) Rietvelder?
Natasha Ziada (X)
Australia
@Michael
23:17 Aug 16, 2013
I guess what I was trying to say is that I agree with those who said that 'mutual obligations' seems too generic a translation for 'breng- en haalplicht' because it's missing that element of *active participation or collaboration* (which to me is key).
However in this case it might work because the author goes on to explain what these obligations entail (as Moira and Barend said): "Wat kan en mag je van de ander verwachten, wat krijg je hiervoor terug en gaat dit leiden tot ‘betere’ prestaties."
I would still be interested in hearing writeaway's suggestion though
If you are familiar with these review cycles, then you must have a general idea of what they pertain to: delivery on goals, daily duties, training requirements, etc.
At this point in the text it is not opportune to go into specifics.
This is what Moira said: 'the text explains exactly what's entailed'
And agree with this: 'breng- en haalplicht' is defined in the next sentence.
breng- en haalplicht = wat kan en mag je van de ander verwachten, wat krijg je hiervoor terug en gaat dit leiden tot ‘betere’ prestaties.
It pertains to everything that is expected from the employee and the manager, everything that is mutually agreed upon at the beginning of the 'Performance Management Review Process/Cycle'
All this seems clear to me from the text Frank offered.
your suggestion: 'both parties actively participate in the exchange of information'
=
my suggestion: 'obligation to provide and request information' (1. see my discussion entry above; although I think we are talking about more than information here)(2. I think some sort of obligation is needed, to match plicht in the source)
Natasha Ziada (X)
Australia
12:41 Aug 16, 2013
Judging from the refs writeaway provided it seems to mean something like: 'both parties actively participate in the exchange of information', but I'd love to know a more natural sounding, to the point translation. The elements of collaboration and contribution seem essential though.
I have been asking myself the same question. I do think it's time for me to stop participating in this pair. I did offer an idea and posted the German ref. I wouldn't use mutual obligations but that's just me. Clearly others would. Forget I said I know a more accurate term. It's just my personal preference. Stick with what everyone is happy with.
I sometimes wonder why you still spend your precious time in these forums. Aren't there forums at Stridonium for people with superior language skills such as yourself? Saying things like 'there is more accurate English terminology' but refusing to share it is just childish. If you know more than other people here (which I don’t doubt, in certain subject areas) either share it or stop teasing us with it.
That's a rather strange attitude to take. Are we so inflexible that we might not change our minds if a better answer comes along? Surely the more contributions the better - nothing like a bit of brainstorming!
because I don't want to post an answer. you have all agreed it should be mutual obligations so that's settled then. there is more accurate English terminology but experience has shown it's pointless to continue once everyone's mind is made up.
I don't see the problem with the author being vague about what 'wat' entails. Could be info, advice, specific targets, willingness to undergo training, etc. - whatever might improve performance.
Frank van Thienen (X)
Canada
ASKER
indeed more than info
11:29 Aug 16, 2013
@Michael: indeed I believe there's more than just 'information' at stake here. E.g. productivity targets, salary, bonuses, training, etc. i.e. the whole package
writeaway mentions a 'give and take or exchange of info, etc.'
The original text reads 'Wat kan en mag je van de ander verwachten, wat krijg je hiervoor terug'
That is, the text doesn't specify what it is talking about. Writeaway believes they are talking about 'information, etc.' However, until someone (the author?) clarifies exactly what is being exchanged/referred to I suppose the rather general 'mutual obligations' would indeed be the best option (although it of course doesn't make any mention of the content of said obligations).
1. haalplicht (WOR) = obligation to request advice 2. brengplicht (WOR) = obligation to provide advice 3. WOR (1 april 1971) (Wet op de ondernemingsraden) Works Councils Act
This would make it:
'obligation to provide and request advice'
However, I think in this context the following might be better:
It's basically a give and take or exchange of info, etc. Now someone can come in and post that (or a variation thereof) as an answer. As I posted earlier and then removed it, the breng part was on a previous Kudoz. There is a fine explanation there as well: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_dutch/education_pedagogy...
