question to get the following answer

English translation: you've already answered your own question!

12:55 Oct 17, 2004
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics
English term or phrase: question to get the following answer
(Please native speakers only)

Question: I am trying to ask the position of Harry S. Truman in the numerical listing of Presidents of the United States to get the following answer:

"Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the USA."

How should I ask the question to get this answer?
thank you
Selçuk Budak
Local time: 01:45
Selected answer:you've already answered your own question!
Explanation:
"What number president was HST?" is exactly what came to my mind... and I'm a native speaker from the US.
Other sites use the same question (see below).
The second reference lists this question for Hayes. The site (the Rutherford B. Hayes Presidential Center) has a Q&A series about the President.

14. What number President was Hayes and whom did he follow? He was the 19th President,following Grant.

You can trust your instinct on this one!
Selected response from:

Catherine Bolton
Local time: 00:45
Grading comment
I would like to thank all who spent their valuable time and effort to help me. And all you actually helped me in certain ways. For example, I learnt in this process that English language do not have a question word for ordinal questions. Please see my note on why I am choosing my own answer as the most helpful! :)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
5 +10you've already answered your own question!
Catherine Bolton
4 +6What was Harry S. Truman's numerical order among U.S. presidents?
J. Leo (X)
4 +2Which of the 43 presidents of the USA was Harry S. Truman?
IanW (X)
4 +1Q: Who was the 33rd President of the U.S.?
Hacene
5Where does Harry S. Truman fit into the US Presidential Succession
airmailrpl
3 +1which position did Harry Truman hold within the US President succession?
Michel A.
4what was Harry S. Truman's numerical position amongst all the US Presidents?
jebeen
3 -2Harry S. Truman was the how manyeth president?
Derek Gill Franßen


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
which position did Harry Truman hold within the US President succession?


Explanation:
A try

Michel A.
Local time: 18:45
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Hacene: position does not fit here
8 mins

agree  airmailrpl: -within the US Presidental succession
19 hrs
  -> Cheers
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
A: Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the USA
Q: Who was the 33rd President of the U.S.?


Explanation:
this question will either call for a short answer or a long answer.

short answer: "Harry S. Truman" (acceptable when speaking but not in a more formal context)

long answers: 1) The 33rd U.S. President was Harry S. Truman
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2) Harry S. Truman was the 33rd President of the U.S..


For this type of questions, see the game called Jeopardy and see "quiz show 5"

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Note added at 26 mins (2004-10-17 13:22:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Following Michel\'s comment:

WHAT RANKING DOES HARRY S. TRUMAN HOLD IN THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY SUCCESSION?

would be another formulation


    Reference: http://www.chiasmus.com/chiasticquizshow.shtml
Hacene
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:45
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Michel A.: The asker knows that Harry Truman was President, he wants to know his 'rank' or , therefore he cannot ask who was the 33rd....
3 mins
  -> I see your point

agree  jebeen
27 mins
  -> cheers Jebeen
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +10
you've already answered your own question!


Explanation:
"What number president was HST?" is exactly what came to my mind... and I'm a native speaker from the US.
Other sites use the same question (see below).
The second reference lists this question for Hayes. The site (the Rutherford B. Hayes Presidential Center) has a Q&A series about the President.

14. What number President was Hayes and whom did he follow? He was the 19th President,following Grant.

You can trust your instinct on this one!


    Reference: http://www.english-zone.com/reading/president.html
    Reference: http://www.rbhayes.org/receptn.htm
Catherine Bolton
Local time: 00:45
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I would like to thank all who spent their valuable time and effort to help me. And all you actually helped me in certain ways. For example, I learnt in this process that English language do not have a question word for ordinal questions. Please see my note on why I am choosing my own answer as the most helpful! :)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cmwilliams (X)
1 min
  -> Thanks!

agree  RHELLER
12 mins
  -> Thanks Rita!

agree  Mapi: well, I am not a native English speaker, but that was exactly my first thought too
1 hr
  -> Thanks. We actually had to memorize this kind of stuff at school!

agree  Ian M-H (X)
1 hr
  -> Thanks Ian.

agree  Derek Gill Franßen: Crazy English, but it IS used. ;-)
1 hr
  -> English IS crazy. That's what's so appealing about it, right? ;-)

agree  Terry Gilman: this is plain and sturdy, but the 'numerical order' solution offered by James Caulfield strikes me a preferable in a formal context
2 hrs
  -> Thanks. We need to know how formal this context is.

agree  Asghar Bhatti
8 hrs

agree  DDH (X)
18 hrs

agree  John Bowden
1 day 4 hrs

agree  Stefangelo DPSI
1789 days
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Which of the 43 presidents of the USA was Harry S. Truman?


Explanation:
How about "Which of the 43 presidents of the USA was Harry S. Truman?"

IanW (X)
Local time: 00:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Derek Gill Franßen: ;-)
20 mins

agree  Terry Gilman: This could elicit the answer, but it might also result in "He was the one whose middle initial didn't stand for anything." // Actually it was supposedly a parental compromise between family names (Shipper and Salomon), so it did have a meaning.
2 hrs
  -> True :-)
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58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
what was Harry S. Truman's numerical position amongst all the US Presidents?


Explanation:
what was Harry S. Truman's numerical position amongst all the US Presidents?

N.B.:
I am not a native speaker; but English is my 2nd language and my field of Study. Hence, could not resist the temptation to reply.

jebeen
Local time: 18:45
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
Harry S. Truman was the how manyeth president?


Explanation:
I know that sounds strange, but it's the only way I can think of to keep it short and that how we would 'say' it (also see: http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=manyeth&meta= ). ;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2004-10-17 13:12:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or I guess you could phrase it like the first link above: \"The how manyeth president of the United States was Harry S. Truman?\".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 30 mins (2004-10-17 14:25:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

FYI - Sometimes it is also spelled \"manyth\".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 36 mins (2004-10-17 14:31:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sometimes, it is even spelled \"how(-)manieth\" (see: http://www.proz.com/?sp=h&id=334512 ). ;-))

Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Local time: 00:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  sarahl (X)
6 mins
  -> Thanks Sarah.

agree  Hacene
9 mins
  -> Thanks Hacene.

disagree  cmwilliams (X): I don't think 'manyeth' is an English word.// And I hope it doesn't come into use because of some references on Google, one of which concerns a website for 'constructed language' where anyone can add whatever they like!!
35 mins
  -> It might not be an English word, and it is certainly not a 'normal' American word, but I have heard it 'many a time' (it has even been used in the House of Commons, see: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmstand/h/...

disagree  IanW (X): Are you serious, Derek? /// Elegantly ... ??? :-) //// By the way, we say "umpteenth" in Ireland too - and in the UK, possibly in the whole English-speaking world
40 mins
  -> This time I really am serious: If this isn't a word, then it should be, if not for anything else, than to deal with this particular problem elegantly. :-) // Okay, so strike that. How about "to reflect actual usage"? ;-)

neutral  jebeen: I have not come across the word 'manyeth' in English.
44 mins
  -> But have you heard it before? I have. :-)

disagree  Marcus Malabad: Derek, show me solid linguistic evidence for 'manyeth' (even dictionaries from the 17th c) and I'll believe ya man!
1 hr
  -> I make no claim of having evidence - I've just heard enough times that it popped into my head when I saw this question (I can't help myself). Call it nonsense or call it modern usage - call it what you will; I've heard people say it (Is 'ya' a word?). ;-)

disagree  J. Leo (X): Americans sometimes do use this '-th' construction when "Shakespearianizing" (my word?) out of sarcasism about British English or insecurity about AmE, but this isn't correct in this context. Not with me. Your interpretation maybe?
1 hr
  -> Oh my, I seem to have inflamed some emotions with this one. That was not my intention. // Probably... :-)

agree  Terry Gilman: Think the asker's own question is better. (How-) Manyeth was used in my family along with umpteenth (parents expressing exasperation) and is colloquial, perhaps peculiar to New England, as "wicked" once was, but nothing to get riled or be insecure about.
1 hr
  -> "If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times: ..." I don't think these expressions are locally confined to the Northeast - I grew up in the West & heard them all the time ('umpteenth' too). I never noticed the apparent sarcasm, but it's all good.

disagree  airmailrpl: sounds almost as bad as dragging your fingernails acroos a blackboard
19 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
What was Harry S. Truman's numerical order among U.S. presidents?


Explanation:
'Numerical order' is the correct term for a list. Rank and position are vague and open to other possible interpretations.
Among is US English.


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Note added at 1 hr 23 mins (2004-10-17 14:19:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mentioning \'...of the 43 presidents...\' makes the question static and may be dated after 2 November 2004.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 59 mins (2004-10-17 14:54:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

forgot to write \'Thanks Derek\'.

J. Leo (X)
Local time: 00:45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Melanie Nassar
32 mins
  -> Thanks armaat

agree  Derek Gill Franßen: This would be more mainstream and flexible (IMHO). :-)
34 mins
  -> It seems that the more mainstream we use English, the greater the understanding among all who use English, especially those speaking International English.

agree  Terry Gilman: yes, accessible to most readers I would think
50 mins
  -> Thanks Terry.

agree  Refugio
1 hr
  -> Gracias Ruth

agree  cmwilliams (X)
2 hrs
  -> Thanks CM

agree  sarahl (X)
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Sarah
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Where does Harry S. Truman fit into the US Presidential Succession


Explanation:
Where does Harry S. Truman fit into the US Presidential Succession?

airmailrpl
Brazil
Local time: 19:45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 32
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