maquette sculptée

English translation: model

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	maquette sculptée
English translation:	model
Entered by:	Jane Griffiths (X)

13:23 Jan 22, 2005

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / Italy

French term or phrase: maquette sculptée

From a text on the history of Venetia. This particular passage is on the university in Padua.

A l'intérieur de l'Université, une **maquette sculptée** du théâtre anatomique de Padoue se déroule sous nos yeux telle une spirale. Au centre, la table de dissection est visible pour l'assemblée entière qui siège dans les couloirs circulaires de cet amphithéâtre. L'anatomiste flamand Vésale, qui fut l'un des premiers à pratiquer la dissection du corps humain, avait lui-même effectué des travaux en ces lieux.
On peut encore entendre les conversations des étudiants qui résonnent à l'intérieur de cette impressionnante enceinte architecturale.

I know that a maquette is a model, but it just seems so strange to me here. The rest of the paragraph makes it sound like they are talking about the actual theatre. Is there another usage of maquette that I am not aware of, or is the French simply jumping from saying that there is a model of the theatre to describing the theatre itself?

French Foodie KudoZ activity Questions: 424 (none open) (8 closed without grading) Answers: 426
Local time: 17:52

architectural model

Explanation:
I've looked this up in Italian and found "Nella saletta adiacente al Teatro Anatomico è allestita una mostra permanente di busti e stemmi, antichi diplomi di laurea, incisioni, ritratti, medaglie, sigilli, documenti vari, il modello ligneo del teatro anatomico (scala 1:10)." at the website below.

To summarise the Italian, there's a 1:10 wooden model of the Anatomical Theatre in the room next to the Anatomical Theatre itself.

By the way, I would write 'Veneto' rather than 'Venetia' when discussing the modern Italian region in English. I would only use Venetia with reference to a much earlier period in history - ancient Rome etc. I hope that helps.

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Note added at 21 mins (2005-01-22 13:45:19 GMT)
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I\'d definitely say \"architectural model\" rather than \"sculpted model\" here. The Anatomical Theatre is a room - something architectural. See, for example, http://www.atomltd.com/tmoment.htm

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Note added at 1 hr 52 mins (2005-01-22 15:15:32 GMT)
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In response to your note, I\'d say \"Veneto\" in the context of the 16th Century, as would this lecturer at Edinburgh University: http://www.caad.ed.ac.uk/courses/history/ah_hons.html

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Note added at 3 hrs 57 mins (2005-01-22 17:20:59 GMT)
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Looking at your source text again, I wonder if the author has ever visited Padua! Perhaps he or she has misunderstood the guide books and doesn\'t realise that the anatomy theatre itself is still there, as well as the model in the room next door. Ah well, you\'ll just have to translate what\'s in the text - perhaps with a translator\'s note.

\"Anatomy theatre\" is the term used in the Rough Guide to Venice and the Veneto, p. 279.

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Note added at 6 hrs 18 mins (2005-01-22 19:42:01 GMT)
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I don\'t know what your translation will be used for, but if it isn\'t required to be very close, then you could perhaps just say \"a model of the anatomy theatre\" - thus avoiding all sorts of problems!

Selected response from:

Jane Griffiths (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:52

Grading comment

I don't even know where to begin - I am *very* grateful for everyone's input on both the model and the Veneto/Venetia point. Points go to Jane for finding me the link to the model itself. In the end, I am going to go with her suggestion and be very general with "wooden model". This is for a documentary, so the people will actually see the thing for themselves and don't need the text to describe it in detail. Sometimes, a picture really is worth a thousand words :-)
Many thanks to all.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +6

architectural model

Jane Griffiths (X)

4 +2

a sculpted maquette

Hacene

hand-carved model of the anatomy theatre

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)

sculpted model

suezen

1 +1

Not for grading

Christopher Crockett

Discussion entries: 6

Answers

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

maquette sculptée a sculpted maquette

Explanation:
..

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Note added at 5 mins (2005-01-22 13:29:01 GMT)
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http://www.dchiang.com/robota/maquettes/maquettes1.html

Hacene
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 16

13 mins confidence:

maquette sculptée sculpted model

Explanation:
seems to me they've jumped from the sculpted model to a description of what you can see inside it.

suezen
Local time: 17:52
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 36

1 hr confidence:

maquette sculptée hand-carved model of the anatomy theatre

Explanation:
scupltée means HAND CARVED here, if made from wood....which I believe this one is

anatomy theatre is like operating theatre...like a Greek amphitheatre...

they would dissect a body on a table and the students sit in all around on bench desks in the amphitheatre..ie looking DOWN on the scene....

I think hand-carved makes more sense here as there are probably PIECES...and it's not just ONE CHUNK...

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Note added at 1 hr 17 mins (2005-01-22 14:40:50 GMT)
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This is definitely NOT an ARCHITECTURAL model...in any case, in French cela se dit maquette architectural...

sculptée is carved, crafted or shaped...

literally: it is made from one piece....ACTUALLY, IT IS PROBABLY MADE FROM ONE CHUNK WITHOUT PIECES...that\'s the idea of SCULPTËE

FINAL: model of the anatomy theatre, carved out of a single block of wood....

It\'s all made of one piece..in other words, there are no detachable figurines or parts...

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Note added at 1 hr 19 mins (2005-01-22 14:42:29 GMT)
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- model of the anatomy theater carved from a single block of wood
OR
- wooden model of the anatomy theater carved from a single block

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Note added at 1 hr 27 mins (2005-01-22 14:50:49 GMT)
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SHORTER: single-block-carved wooden model...

that\'s the idea of sculptée...made from single block of wood..

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Note added at 5 hrs 14 mins (2005-01-22 18:37:51 GMT)
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WHAT IS AN ARCHITECUTURAL MODEL?

An architectural model is made by a model-maker. An architectural model maker works on his or her own or works for an architectural firm. He or she may or may not be an architect with a degree. However, he or she knows how to read architectural drawings. The point of an architectural model is ***to show the person who commissions the building what the final built structure will look like.*** Architectural models can be made of many materials; wood, cardboard and plastic. In the old days, they were made of wood. The pieces are CUT out SEPARATELY and GLUED TOGETHER. Today, MOST BUT NOT ALL architectural models are made from plastic [sorry,the actual kind just slipped my mind.] The pieces - cut to scale - are cut by hand or by laser from specifications provided by the architect and assembled by the model maker or assembled by assistants.

Now, the model referred to by Mara is not an architectural model per se. Models can also be made of buildings AFTER THE FACT ie after they are built for a variety of purposes. In the times she refers to, models could be built to show a building in ANOTHER COUNTRY. Models could be moved or made in another country.

Sculptée as used here and which can vaguely be seen in the DRAWING found by Christopher refers to the HOW THE MODEL was made and NOT ITS FUNCTION. It looks to me to be CARVED from one piece rather than GLUED TOGETHER from a series of separately made pieces. Or at least it has a sculpted appearance. As far as i know, sculpted means you take a hunk of SOMETHING, and cut away at it until it LOOK LIKE something recognizable. It\'s MY GUESS that this MODEL was made from one piece rather than ASSEMBLED from many pieces. The meaning as I have said is either scuplted out of wood,,or hand-carved..but the main idea which perhaps SOMEONE ELSE can SAY BETTER is: not assembled from individual pieces.

:)

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Note added at 5 hrs 16 mins (2005-01-22 18:39:25 GMT)
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PS Christopher

there is HAND CARVING and MACHINE CARVING...though since this is 15th century..it would have been hand carved as there were no carving machines then...maybe hand tooled..as I said, I have given the main idea perhaps you or someone else may express it better.

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Note added at 5 hrs 17 mins (2005-01-22 18:41:06 GMT)
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The reason we know this is not ABOUT the architecture SIDE OF THE ISSUE is because in FRENCH, an architectural model is a \'\'maquette d\'architecture, or architecturale.

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Note added at 5 hrs 24 mins (2005-01-22 18:47:38 GMT)
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Mara

from the Petit Robert: sculpter= Façonner, produire [une oeuvre d\'art en 3 dimensions) en taillant une matière dure.....

:)

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 4

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

maquette sculptée Not for grading

Explanation:
Jane Griffiths' url to a .jpg of this model

http://pacs.unica.it/biblio/fig17.jpg

led me to search further for information on it.

There is no question about it being a "model", an no question about it being made --presumably by hand-- from more than one piece :

http://www.lnl.infn.it/~sirr99/teatro.htm

http://galileo.imss.firenze.it/milleanni/padova/ipadova1.htm...

Though I haven't seen a text which explicitly says so, it is quite probable that this "theater" no longer exists, since it was built (*presumably* it was actually built) in 1594

http://www.vitruvio.ch/arc/renaissance/italy/teatroanatomico...

Although, according to this site,

http://www.unipd.it/esterni/visiteweb/english/pagine/note.ht...
(--note 16)

the 1594 theater of Acquapendente was his *second*, and it still exists.

This site also says it still exists :

http://www.e-side.it/base/p/pdincoming/tour_arte.php

This site describes a theater at Ferrara, and gives a more detailed idea of how they looked and functioned :

http://web.unife.it/dipartimento/morfol/mus_anat/teatro.html

I can't tell from the text whether or not the theater on this page is in Venice or Padua

http://www.esnpisa.it/eventi/venezia.htm

Venice, I should think...

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Note added at 3 hrs 11 mins (2005-01-22 16:35:03 GMT)
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re \"Venetia\" or \"Veneto\", it might be that the former is Italian, the latter English.

Either way, here\'s a really *beautiful* book on the \"villas\" of the Veneto

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3895082422/qid...

cheaper copies here :

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/3895082422/re...

A real Steal at the price --the publisher produced such wonderful books so cheaply that they went bankrupt!

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Note added at 6 hrs 6 mins (2005-01-22 19:29:36 GMT)
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Note to Jane Lamb-Ruiz:

\"...the model referred to by Mara is not an architectural model per se.\"

Only if you insist on defining an a.m. as one made \"to show the person who commissions the building what the final built structure will look like\".

But, it *is* most definitely a \"model\", and it is, most definitely, a \"model\" of a bit of architecture.

Therefore, calling it an \"architectural model\" would not seem to be too far from the mark.

Re the question of whether or not this particular architectural model was \"CARVED from one piece rather than GLUED TOGETHER from a series of separately made pieces\", that\'s something of a No-Brainer, given the appearance of the piece in question :

http://www.lnl.infn.it/~sirr99/teatro.htm

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 11:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 100

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): why don't you go with the text? sculputé is not architectural..it may have been made AS AN architectural model but HERE they choose to SAY sculptée: why? you do not attempt to even answer that question....the

2 hrs

-> Usually, perhaps, but obviously not in this case. Not a question of a "ONE GO", here, obviously. Thanks anyway, Jane.

neutral

Jane Griffiths (X): Veneto is the current Italian name of a region in north-east Italy. Venetia, Latin for Venice, is also a historical regional name which included Veneto and extended much further eastwards. Veneto is better for the area around Padua in the 16th Century.

6 hrs

-> Thanks for the correction, Jane. I was just flying by the seat of my pants, obviously. I don't know from Italy. Beautiful region, though, from the one time I was able to visit it.

19 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +6

maquette sculptée

architectural model

Jane Griffiths (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:52
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Hacene: the original is much clearer

7 mins

-> Thanks. Just to clarify, I haven't found the Italian text from which the French may (or may not) be translated. just further info about the same thing.

agree

suezen: sounds much better I agree

7 mins

-> Thanks

agree

writeaway

31 mins

-> Thanks

agree

GILLES MEUNIER

51 mins

-> Thanks

neutral

Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X): Look I am not trying to be nasty..here's the deal: an ARCHITECTURAL model qua model is made in order to show the principal [owner] what the built thing will look like. See in my answer please..:)

52 mins

-> I've found a picture of the model itself at http://pacs.unica.it/biblio/storia3.htm If Mara's client doesn't need a very close translation, then "a model of the anatomy theatre" (with a translator's note) would avoid the issues and read fluently.

agree

Christopher Crockett: Surely this is what is meant.The chances of it --complete with the table-- being made from a single piece of wood are nil. It may be that the original building is lost and this model is the only evidence for what it looked like.The "tiscover" url is dead.

1 hr

-> Thanks. The Anatomical Theatre is still there, inside Padua University's main building (Palazzo del Bo). The model in question is in a smaller room next door to it. Here's a similar Italian site http://www.pd.istc.cnr.it/GSCP2004/home/sede.htm

agree

Ian Burley (X)

3 hrs

-> Thanks

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