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vertical steel plate: height or depth?

English translation: height

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English term or phrase:	vertical steel plate: height or depth?
English translation:	height
Entered by:	Goldcoaster

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11:20 Sep 11, 2009

English to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering / Bridge engineering (UK English)

English term or phrase: vertical steel plate: height or depth?

Engineering specialists please.

Height and depth are a major headache as one talks of the depth of a girder, the height of a shear stud etc. However with a vertical steel plate, it could be either. I favour "height" as, though the plate has thickness too, there could otherwise be a confusion as the word "depth" could be used about the thickness of horizontal steel plates.

I'd appreciate any corroboration about the usual UK practice.

B D Finch KudoZ activity Questions: 445 (none open) (69 closed without grading) Answers: 2522 France
Local time: 21:54

height

Explanation:
by itself I would refer to a vertical steel plate as being so high unless this steel plate is part of a construction where depth could also be applicable (depth within a construction)

Selected response from:

Goldcoaster
Switzerland
Local time: 21:54

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Summary of answers provided

3 +4

height

Goldcoaster

4 +2

height

xxxmediamatrix

Discussion entries: 9

B D Finch

France

ASKER

Correction

13:05 Dec 3, 2009

Gary is, of course, right and shear studs have (overall) length and diameter, rather than height.

Gary D

a stud

22:17 Sep 11, 2009

A stud (Bolt) is measured only by its length and diameter (Not its Head diameter), It only has height when it protrudes at a height above the plate.
The head diameter is described as Hex, (19mm) Hex, Cap, etc.
"the depth of the hole in the ceiling measured from the top downwards or from the bottom upwards? Or could it be from the top upwards and from the bottom downwards?" Depends if you are standing on your feet or your head..

B D Finch

France

ASKER

Breadth and multi-dimensions?

12:32 Sep 11, 2009

Thanks Gary, a nice old word, but I prefer to use "width", keeping "breadth" for more literary applications. Houses are multi-dimensional, but one talks of the vertical dimension of a house as its height. The vertical plate doesn't necessarily go into anything and one does refer to the "height" of a stud, meaning its internal dimension i.e. not in relation to anything else.

Gary D

Angle

12:15 Sep 11, 2009

when you use 75mm X 75mm X 5mm angle the 75mm is measured as a depth as there is another side to it and the LBT doesn't apply. The 75mm section is how far it can sit into something else or how much depth you have to work with, the 5mm is the thickness

Gary D

Girders

12:09 Sep 11, 2009

Girders use depth as they are multi-dimensional and the measurement is taken from inbetween the "H" section or the beam, a 10" girder is 10 ins inbetween the the top and the bottom so it is called the depth

Gary D

Depth of a hole and thickness of a steel plate

12:03 Sep 11, 2009

The height of the vertical plate would be the height above something else.

The depth of the steel plate is the depth it goes into something.

The thickness is the thickness of the steel plate, (plate Thickness)

If it is a machined plate it becomes the finished thickness.

If you are talking about the whole plate, then it becomes the dimensions of the plate, Usually LBT (Length, Breadth, Thickness.)
Makes no difference if it is horizontal or vertical

B D Finch

France

ASKER

Re horizontal

11:39 Sep 11, 2009

Yes, I would use use thickness not depth for horizontal plates, but one does sometimes find "depth" used instead.

Bashiqa

France

Depth

11:31 Sep 11, 2009

For horizontal plates you would surely use thickness not depth, so for your vertical plate I would opt for depth.

B D Finch

France

ASKER

Extra info

11:22 Sep 11, 2009

I've used "depth"m not "height" for steel angle bars.

Answers

39 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

height

Goldcoaster
Switzerland
Local time: 21:54
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English,

German
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

height

Explanation:
To me, an engineer, the height of a vertical steel plate, in the absence of any other words indicating position, will always refer to the length of a vertical line drawn on the surface of the plate, extending from the lower-most to the upper-most point of that plate (or between horizontal lines through those points, if they are not vertically aligned).

If a text needs to refer to the positional height, there will always be a reference (explicit or implicit) to something else (a datum): mean sea level, ground surface, roof level, or whatever; also the point on the plate which is at that positional height above the datum with also be identified.

Example 1:
The height of the plate is 5m.
The height of the lower edge of the plate above ground level is 2m.

Where 'height above' is negative, the correct term is 'depth'. But even where the positional height is in fact a 'depth', the plate itself has height, not depth.

Example 2:
The height of the plate is 3m.
The depth of the lower edge of the plate below ground level is 0.5m.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-09-11 12:53:10 GMT)
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oops! End of 2nd para: "... will also be identified."

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Note added at 5 hrs (2009-09-11 16:39:41 GMT)
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Despite the risk of boring everyone silly...

Having ascertained (or tried to ascertain...) that depth is negative height measured with respect to a datum, then assuming that Asker's bridge is, for example, a conventional structure carrying a railroad line over a river with I-girders/beams underneath the deck, then the datum - whether explicitly (because it's marked as such on the plans) or implicitly (because, conceptually, it substitutes for 'ground level'), will be the deck. The composite I-beams underneath the deck will have 'depth' (which increases going downwards from the datum); but the steel plates forming the web of those beams will have 'height' because this dimension is measured without reference to the datum. Often, of course, the depth of the beam equals the height of the plate, hence (?) possible confusion.

It's the same with a desk drawer. The front panel, sides and back of the drawer have 'height'; the draw *as a whole* has a 'depth' which defines the height of the tallest object that will fit into the closed drawer (and which is usually slightly less than the panel height). (Of course it doesn't help when people refer to the depth of a drawer as being the distance inside, from the front panel to the back.)

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Note added at 6 hrs (2009-09-11 18:19:30 GMT)
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Re Asker's first note below:
The angle of the girder is irrelevant, since the meanings of length, width, depth, height etc. are assigned by convention to the case of a horizontal girder with the web vertical. This happens to be the first and simplest configuration dealt with in classic textbooks on statics. Even if it is vertical (i.e. it's a pillar), the 'height' of the steel plate forming the web is its 'short' dimension corresponding to the 'depth' of the girder, not the length (i.e. height of the pillar).

In the same way as a man lying on the floor is still 6 feet tall.

Re Asker's second note below:
Regarding the headed stud example, I'd say the stud has three dimensions in the longitudinal sense: (overall) length of stud; height of the protruding end when the stud is fitted into the hole (measured up from the datum surface); depth of the hidden end when fitted into the hole (measured down from the datum). Also there's the depth of the hole, usually slightly greater than the stud depth.

Conventionally, it's still 'height of protruding end' even if the stud is fitted in a horizontal position into a vertical surface, and a hole has 'depth' even it's perforated upwards into the ceiling.

Of course, water in a swimming pool that's been fixed upside-down to the ceiling with these studs won't have 'depth' because the it will all run out onto the floor below, but that's another story, way OT.

Asker asks (below): "[is]looking for absolute consistency in English usage a waste of time?" Yes, of course! But let's not forget that that's precisely what keeps us in business despite MT :)

xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 15:54
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of:

English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks mm. that is really useful.

Asker: Encyclopaedic! Your desk drawer example is interesting because the front to back distance is, of course its length. Whereas, the dimension in the same orientation of the desk containing the drawer is its depth! The bridge is a road bridge. The girders have depth not height, without reference to a datum, whether they are vertical, horizontal or diagonal, though they are actually all roughly horizontal (so far). Oops, how did the word "roughly" creep in?!

Asker: I think that the girder has depth because it is composed of flanges and a web? On the other hand, a headed stud has height rather than depth, probably to avoid confusion with dimensions of the hole it fits into. Or could it just be that looking for absolute consistency in English usage is a waste of time.

Asker: One could continue by asking whether the depth of the hole in the ceiling measured from the top downwards or from the bottom upwards? Or could it be from the top upwards and from the bottom downwards? No, don't bother answering that.

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Changes made by editors

Sep 25, 2009 - Changes made by Goldcoaster:
Created KOG entry	KudoZ term => KOG term

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