English translation: Acommodation for either or both events in any religion for tracing name origins
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22:22 Jul 12, 2010
English to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Religion
English term or phrase:baptism vs. christening
The GEDCOM standard for genealogical data exchange, used by professional genealogists and amateur family historians worldwide, was developed over 25 years ago by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the ‘Mormons’).
The list of ‘events’ occurring in the lives of individuals listed in a GEDCOM file, (birth, death, burial, etc.) includes the following two distinct events and LDS definitions:
BAPTISM: The event of baptism (not LDS), performed in infancy or later.
CHRISTENING: The religious event (not LDS) of baptizing and/or naming a child.
('not LDS' refers to the fact both events exclude naming events specific to the Mormon Church, which are listed separately)
Question: What distinguishes ‘baptism’ from ‘christening’ - to the point that the developers of this data standard found it necesssary to propose two distinct 'events'?
Even as I write this question I am reminded of how we use these two words in my native (UK) English. For example: in the Church of England, babies are 'christened' and afterwards the vicar presents the parents with a certificate headed 'baptism'. Babies receive gifts: 'christening mugs' and the like. The baby is often dressed in an heirloom 'christening robe' and the water is contained in the 'baptismal font'. The event is recorded in the parish church, in a book called the Register of Baptisms. Talking amongst themselves, family members will say: 'We went to baby John's christening', but: 'Baby John cried while he was being baptised'.
Thinking in terms of the methods of tracing the genealogical history of a person, the entry options are possibly established separately because there are so many religions that have different names for their ceremonies.
Most churches (of any denomination) keep records of the events that occur within their membership. So, whatever is checked off, be it 'baptism' or 'christening' on a search form will lead to other areas in the database to check for a name or date match.
The reference URL I added even uses another name for these ceremonies, 'dedications'. IMHO, I think the point of the two fields is for search purposes (baptism and christening were possibly considered to be the two best options to fit the criteria input by the highest number of people) irrespective of the actual meaning or differences between a 'baptism' or 'christening'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2010-07-13 00:35:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Thanks. Pragmatism will prevail - I'm reprogramming the system to circumvent the failings of the Gedcom standard. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Christening is "to make a Christian" and Baptism is the "religious rite symbolising admission to the Christian church". We may split hairs, but to be a Christian is to be a member of the Christian church. Both cases are, effectively, identical
I do not know anything about the GEDCOM standard, but surely they don't expect everyone on the planet to fall into one of these two categories. Not even everyone in Utah does: http://atheists-of-utah.org/home/
I see that you must coordinate your program with Gedcom standards, but must you stick to their fields alone? Would it be outrageous for you to add the additional fields that are correct for Mapudungun ceremonies? Gedcom was designed for a specific grouping. You are planning to enlarge the reach, and I have a hard time imagining how you will do this without adding fields that are relevant, (for any language), as they will not all fit into the Gedcom definitions for their fields. Cool project!
I also need to decide how to incorporate the events of the animist Mapuche people in this scheme - and the 'naming ceremony' in particular since this is the key event from a genealogical perspective. Contributions on this page suggest that for the Christian world the 'naming ceremony' is 'christening', not 'baptism'. That's fine in English - but I can find no such distinction in other languages (for example, French and Spanish only have baptême and bautizo, respectively); and I can already hear the uproar from our local indigenous communities if they are expected to enter their naming ceremonies (the Mapuche 'Katan', where a girl receives the name of her maternal grandmother, or the 'Lakutun' where a boy receives the name of his paternal grandfather) under either of these classifications.
Many thanks to everyone for your contributions. Here's a bit more context:
The reason behind my question is that I am developing a genealogy program which will incorporate family history data for a range Christian of beliefs as well as one or more animist religions. And the site has to be localized into at least eight European languages, associated with a variety of strains of Christianity as found across Europe from the Atlantic to the Urals, as well as Mapudungun, the language of the animist Mapuche people.
For reasons of compatibility with other genealogy software, my system must cater for all the options in the Gedcom standard, so the event names associated with the Gedcom event tags (BAPL, BAPM, CHR, etc.) must all appear in the localized drop-down lists even if there is 'apparent' duplication.
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Some Christians, for example Salvationists, do not practise any form of baptism at all. However, in common with many who practise exclusively believer's baptism, they do practise 'the public presentation of infants to the Lord': http://www1.salvationarmy.org/heritage.nsf/titles/Glossary_O...
I had not meant to say anything specific about Mormonism. I just said that the use of many terms for Jahve in christianity or christianism does not mean that all these different terms refer to disticnt celestial executives.
I had checked that Firmung and Erstkommunion were not really synonyms - as I had first thought. Which means indeed that the slighthly off-topic example was not to the purpose.
But I uphold my belief that the two entries in that LDS database are not meant as describing two distincit events but just for recording two more or less parallel terms for the same event - as both these terms might be found in documents that the database is dealing with.
... and probably off-topic here: Are you sure that "Kommunion" and "Firmung" are the same for German catholics? Here in Switzerland it is definitely not the same. The first is a ceremony for young children (aged about 8) where they receive their first holy communion while the second refers to a rite for about 15-year old catholics where they "confirm" their belief.
And as this is not my line - for several reasons - we might almost ;-) leave it here.
But I do not see a problem in the database's having the two terms. They wish to cover all the relevant events as they are called. And as non LDS christians use the two terms - although even in En Wikipedia they are synonyms - they got to have them in their database.
German catholics use Firmung and Kommunion - with minor, also regional differences. A similar database for German catholicism would certainly have to include the two terms - with rather identical definitions.
And, last not least, in a christian database, there could be a lot of names for God Almighty - which would then of course certainly not mean that christianity is anything else than a monotheist religion.
If I wrote that they are 'two distinct events' it's because they are listed as separate items in the Gedcom standard - and they have different tags (BAPM and CHR) in the file system: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/FAQ/wcgedcom2.html
The standard was developed by IT specialists, so I doubt that they invented two tags (with different definitions) if one would have been sufficient.
I have no great vocation to discuss this in detail
23:18 Jul 12, 2010
but I just would like to hint that you might reconsider the statement, that these are really two "distinct" events and not just two ways of describing the same event which is, after all, "not LDS". Definition 1 above has "infancy or later", definition 2 above has still "child". So the two ceremonies must be at least in part synonymous. - I would interpret this not as listing two event, but as listing two terms for the same event.
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Answers
30 mins confidence:
diference is in age of the recipient
Explanation: christening (also called infant baptism) takes place in infancy/childhood Baptizm may take place at any point in life.
Hence christening gives a better idea about the date of birth.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 30 mins (2010-07-12 22:53:15 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Acommodation for either or both events in any religion for tracing name origins
Explanation:
Thinking in terms of the methods of tracing the genealogical history of a person, the entry options are possibly established separately because there are so many religions that have different names for their ceremonies.
Most churches (of any denomination) keep records of the events that occur within their membership. So, whatever is checked off, be it 'baptism' or 'christening' on a search form will lead to other areas in the database to check for a name or date match.
The reference URL I added even uses another name for these ceremonies, 'dedications'. IMHO, I think the point of the two fields is for search purposes (baptism and christening were possibly considered to be the two best options to fit the criteria input by the highest number of people) irrespective of the actual meaning or differences between a 'baptism' or 'christening'.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2010-07-13 00:35:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
mediamatrix is right that the two terms are used interchangeably by British Anglicans. This is because two things happen at one ceremony. The essence of christening lies in the fact that it is a naming ceremony. Here is how one Anglican pastor in Australia explains the difference: http://sameurl.com/l1HuK
Peter Nicholson Poland Local time: 04:11 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 15
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
