English translation: Numri i dokumentit referues - Reference Document Number
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15:12 Mar 31, 2011
Albanian to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law (general) / shkurtim
Albanian term or phrase:Ndr.nr.
Ç'do të thotë shkurtimi Ndr.nr. kur figuron (me disa shifra) në fillimin e një dokumenti gjyqësor?
Dokumenti është "jashtëkontestimore" (e lejon martesën para moshës madhore). Ndoshta këtë llojë dokumenti numërohet në një varg e veçantë.
Explanation: This is what I found out after I did my hw. Ndr. (numri i dokumentint referues), nda. (numri i documentit te aktit), etc. are some of the abbreviations that have been used more and more in these kind of documents. The answer for my question, " why the word number (numër) is used twice?" was that this is law language and please don't ask me that question because I do not have another answer.
Hope it helps.
I would like to add that a legal document's abbreviation which is unknown to a lot of lawyers and to the Ministry of Justice is the perfect challenge to a translator, no matter how small the importance is "in real life". I really did try to solve it myself, but this time like so many times before the solution was in your efforts. Cooperation beats competition...
When I said I'd expect "numri referues i dokumentit" I wanted to say that (in my view) the number is referring, the document is not. On the other hand, if the secretary of the court wants to refer to an earlier document, in this case the letter from a young woman asking for a permit to marry before coming of age, then you might say that the document is referring to another document (with a number). -- I have similar "worries" about the phrases "numri rendor i regjistrit" and "numri rendor i protokollit" in dëftesa, because I feel it's not the register or the protocol that has a number, but the dëftesë has a number *in* the register or the protocol. -- Very small problems, though.
The two forms are correct, grammatically. There is no mystery or wired law abut them. It all depends what one wants to say. I will explain my self:
- Numri i dokumentit referent= the number of the document referring to, taken in consideration, so the protocol number of the document this certification refers to or is based on;
- Numri referent i dokumentit = Reference number of the document. In this case I would know of which document, of this one that has been prepared and that you are translating or of the document used in order to extract anagraphical or penal data in order to produce this certificate.
Klemis version is the most plausible one...but still a bit puzzled. Have all a great week end.
You are very welcome, lars-erik. I am glad that I was able to help, I tried. Presently, I am in Albania dealing with laws and papers for a project I have been involved in the last 6 years and I have discussed both versions: yours and the one I suggested with my lawyer and notary. Grammatically, yours sounds right and better and as an English and Albanian language teacher I would absolutely agree with your version.In the contrary, they both suggested the same thing, the one I suggested. Moreover, I have seen it written in paper. Law language??Weird and no rules sometimes.
Thanks a lot, Klemi. I used your explanation and delivered. But I'm still a bit puzzled. Is "numri i dokumentit referues" good Albanian and logic? I'd expect "numri referues i dokumentit".
U vonova kaq shumë pasi kontaktova disa persona në Kosovë, midis të cilëve dy avokatë, një noter, dhe një punonjës së Min. së Financave dhe besoni ap-o jo, askush nuk e dinte se ç'është Ndr.
Të gjithë ama më thanë se ata e kuptojnë si numër protokolli. Kjo është përgjigja më e logjike ppër dy arsye:
1) çdo shkresë zyrtare ka një numër protokolli, ose regjistri dhe këtë nuk e luan as topi.
2) Dokumentet që vijnë nga Kosova nuk përmbajnë numër protokolli por kanë këtë Ndr. nr. ndaj edhe ky mendim;
Megjithatë Lars, nesër do të bisedoj me një koleg që tashmë punon në një tjetër zyrë juridike dhe shpresoj të gjej aty shpjegim, ndaj nëse të pret puna mos e mbyll pyetjen.
I tried to ask the court in Prizren, but the e-mail address was wrong. Then I asked the Ministry of Justice, and they answered "it's a reference number", which we already knew. Then I followed up with a question about the origin of the abbreviation, and the answer was, "We don't know, maybe it's a typo". -- So Fabiana, it's all yours!
I knew I had seen it before, but I couldn't find it in my computer. So what do I do? I ask you once again. Should have checked Proz.com first, of course.
Përshëndetje. Doa të thoja që nuk jam shumë e sigurt që Ndr. ka të bëjë me ndërkombltare dhe ja pse:
Kur lëshohet një dokument, si certifikatë, vërtetim nga zyrat tona, ato kanë një formë shabllon dhe nuk ndryshojnë kurrë, ndaj nuk bëhet dallim për ndonjë dokument që del jashtë Shqipërisë. Ndr. duhet të jetë ndonjë gjë tjetër, e cila do më vijë pas pak se e kam hasur para disa ditësh, por tani nuk po kujtohet. Do shkruaj sërish pas pak....kur të më kujtohet :).
Tungjatjeta Lars-Erik,
Ndoshta shkurtesa Ndr. përcakton se bëhet fjalë për lëndë "ndërkombëtare".
Më duket se në të kaluarën kam hasur këtë shkurtesë.
Shpresoj se kolegët kanë përvojë me këtë rast dhe se mund ta konfirmojnë/kundërshtojnë supozimin tim.
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Answers
4 days confidence:
Numri i dokumentit referues - Reference Document Number
Explanation: This is what I found out after I did my hw. Ndr. (numri i dokumentint referues), nda. (numri i documentit te aktit), etc. are some of the abbreviations that have been used more and more in these kind of documents. The answer for my question, " why the word number (numër) is used twice?" was that this is law language and please don't ask me that question because I do not have another answer.
Hope it helps.
Klemi United States Local time: 23:03 Works in field Native speaker of: Albanian PRO pts in category: 16
The translation workplace 
