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diplomirani inzenjer poljoprivrede

English translation: graduate engineer in agriculture; graduate agricultural engineer

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Bosnian term or phrase:diplomirani inzenjer poljoprivrede
English translation:graduate engineer in agriculture; graduate agricultural engineer
Entered by: V&M Stanković
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

22:06 Sep 5, 2006
Bosnian to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Agriculture
Bosnian term or phrase: diplomirani inzenjer poljoprivrede
strucni naziv (diploma)
Anira
Local time: 23:54
graduate engineer in agriculture
Explanation:
„Универзитет у Београду - Пољопривредни факултет
University of Belgrade - Faculty of Agriculture
...
Дипломирањем на овом факултету стичу се следећи стручни називи: дипломирани инжењер пољопривреде...
...
Graduating from this faculty students get the following academic titles: Graduate Engineer of Agriculture...“
(http://www.bg.ac.yu/en_poljoprivredni.php)


„AgriSeek.com, Canada
Grain Farm Agronomy Engineer Position Job Career
...
Degree/Diploma: Graduated engineer of Agriculture“
(http://www.agriseek.com/job-career/p/Agronomy-Engineer-Posit...


„ЦЕНТАР ЗА МУЛТИДИСЦИПЛИНАРНЕ СТУДИЈЕ УНИВЕРЗИТЕТА У БЕОГРАДУ
...
Академско образовање
1980: дипломирани инжењер пољопривреде
....
Academic Degrees
1980: Graduate engineer degree in agriculture“
(http://www.cms.bg.ac.yu/saradnici/LjJovanovic/nastavnik.htm)


- vidite i http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1060870 , komentar bi bio isti:
Takođe, ne bih prevodila naše diplome dipl.inž. sa B.Sc, pošto to nikako nije ekvivalentno - najčešće se naše dipl.inž. diplome u Americi, a naročito u UK prihvataju u rangu magistra (M.Sc). Uostalom, posao prevodioca (i sudskog tumača) je samo prevođenje, a ne vršenje nostrifikacije, ekvivalencije diploma - što je zakonska procedura specifična u svakoj zemlji i isključivo je vrše za to ovlašćene državne ustanove ili agencije i sl.


U prilog ovome je i instrukcija za sudske tumače sa hrvatske „Sudačke mreže“ (mada se odnosi na prevode en>hr, isto važi i za hr>en):
„Naglasili bi da kod prijevoda inozemne visokoškolske kvalifikacije sudski tumači nisu ni nadležni ni kompetentni samostalno interpretirati izvorno stečeni naziv naveden u kvalifikaciji i umjesto njega navoditi naziv (po njihovom mišljenju ekvivalentne) hrvatske kvalifikacije.
Spomenut ćemo kao primjer najčešće slučajeve kada se, zbog samostalne interpretacije sudskog tumača, npr. Bachelor degree sa stranog jezika prevodi s diplomiram...
... isto kao što se završetkom studija u Republici Hrvatskoj ne može steći titula naziva Bachelor of Arts budući da u Hrvatskoj ne postoji studij čijim se završetkom stječe takvo zvanje.“
(http://www.sudacka-mreza.hr/public/vt_faq.htm#prijevodi_inoz...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2006-09-06 11:19:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Inače, tek po primeni Bolonjske deklaracije, "bachelor" bi moglo biti ekvivalentno tzv. "prvostupniku", kao što je u Hrvatskoj uvedeno pre dve govine:

"Završetkom preddiplomskog studija stječe se akademski naziv prvostupnik/prvostupnica (baccalaureus odnosno baccalaurea) uz naznaku struke, ako posebnim zakonom nije određeno drukčije."
(http://www.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeno/2004/2025.htm)

ili, u Srbiji prošle godine:
"Lice koje završi osnovne akademske studije stiče stručni naziv sa naznakom zvanja prvoga stepena akademskih studija iz odgovarajuće oblasti.
...
U međunarodnom prometu i u diplomi na engleskom jeziku, naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 1. ovog člana je bachelor, naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 2. ovog člana je bachelor (appl.), naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 5. ovog člana je master, a naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 6. ovog člana je Ph. D., odnosno odgovarajući naziv na jeziku na koji se diploma prevodi."
(http://www.parlament.sr.gov.yu/content/lat/akta/akta_detalji...

a mislim da u BiH još uvek nije usvojen sličan zakon.

To sve, naravno, ne važi za staro zvanje "diplomiranog inženjera", na koje se ovo pitanje odnosi.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2006-09-06 19:10:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Primer kako na Columbia University sve titule različite od onih u SAD ne „prevode“ u svoje B.S, B.A. itd, jer su stečene u drugim zemljama po drugim nastavnim planovima i programima, pa se nikako ne mogu automatski izjednačiti:
„Dimitris Anastassiou
Professor of Electrical Engineering
Dipl., National Technical University of Athens (Greece), 1974; M.S., California, 1975; Ph.D., 1979
...
Guillaume Bal
Associate Professor of Applied Ma thematics
Diploma, École Polytechnique, 1993; Ph.D., University of Paris, 1997
...
Predrag Relja Jelenkovic
Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering
Dipl.Ing., Belgrade University, 1991; M.S., Columbia, 1993; M. Phil., 1995; Ph.D., 1996
...
Amiya K. Sen
Professor of Electrical Engineering and of Applied Physics
Dipl., Indian Institute of Science, 1952; M.S., Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1958; Ph.D., Columbia, 1963“
(http://www.engineering.columbia.edu/bulletin/faculty/ )

a isto i na Carleton University, Canada:
„Daniel Feszty
Ph.D., Glasgow
Dipl.Ing. Brno
Assistant Professor
Associate Chair Graduate Studies“
(http://www.mae.carleton.ca/maehtmls/feszty.html)

itd, itd; pogledajte sajtove i drugih univerziteta u SAD i Kanadi.
Selected response from:

V&M Stanković
Serbia
Local time: 07:54
Grading comment
Na osnovu svih prijedloga i navedenih izvora, odlucila sam se za "nesto izmedju", aiko nisam sigurna da je najbolje rjesenje. Ispalo je : Agricultural Engineering Graduate.
Zao mi je sto ne mogu podijeliti bodove na sve vas koji ste se javili. Hvala
na zaista svesrdnoj pomoci i trudu.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3Bachelor of Science in Agricultural EngineeringPavle Perencevic
5graduate engineer in agriculture
V&M Stanković
3 +1BSc of Agriculture
ciovo
5 -1Bachelor of Arts in Agriculture
Gordana Smith


  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Bachelor of Arts in Agriculture


Explanation:
...

Gordana Smith
United States
Local time: 01:54
Native speaker of: Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat, Native in BosnianBosnian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Pavle Perencevic: Bachelor of... Arts?... Sorry about the disagree :), but not if the subjects taken include Mammalian Physiology and Principles of Farm Management...
2 hrs
  -> yes, arts OR science depending on subjects taken. thanks anyway
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
BSc of Agriculture


Explanation:
mislim da je to ali nisam sigurna, sorry

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2006-09-05 22:26:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

nisam siguran, typo, sorry


    Reference: http://www.scottbaltjes.com/resume.html
ciovo
Croatia
Local time: 07:54
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Veronica Prpic Uhing: Bachelor of Science in ..
1 hr

neutral  Pavle Perencevic: B. of S. IN (not OF) a. (BSAg - Webster's; B.SC. Ag./Agri./Agric. - Penguin Dictironary of Abbreviations
2 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
graduate engineer in agriculture


Explanation:
„Универзитет у Београду - Пољопривредни факултет
University of Belgrade - Faculty of Agriculture
...
Дипломирањем на овом факултету стичу се следећи стручни називи: дипломирани инжењер пољопривреде...
...
Graduating from this faculty students get the following academic titles: Graduate Engineer of Agriculture...“
(http://www.bg.ac.yu/en_poljoprivredni.php)


„AgriSeek.com, Canada
Grain Farm Agronomy Engineer Position Job Career
...
Degree/Diploma: Graduated engineer of Agriculture“
(http://www.agriseek.com/job-career/p/Agronomy-Engineer-Posit...


„ЦЕНТАР ЗА МУЛТИДИСЦИПЛИНАРНЕ СТУДИЈЕ УНИВЕРЗИТЕТА У БЕОГРАДУ
...
Академско образовање
1980: дипломирани инжењер пољопривреде
....
Academic Degrees
1980: Graduate engineer degree in agriculture“
(http://www.cms.bg.ac.yu/saradnici/LjJovanovic/nastavnik.htm)


- vidite i http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1060870 , komentar bi bio isti:
Takođe, ne bih prevodila naše diplome dipl.inž. sa B.Sc, pošto to nikako nije ekvivalentno - najčešće se naše dipl.inž. diplome u Americi, a naročito u UK prihvataju u rangu magistra (M.Sc). Uostalom, posao prevodioca (i sudskog tumača) je samo prevođenje, a ne vršenje nostrifikacije, ekvivalencije diploma - što je zakonska procedura specifična u svakoj zemlji i isključivo je vrše za to ovlašćene državne ustanove ili agencije i sl.


U prilog ovome je i instrukcija za sudske tumače sa hrvatske „Sudačke mreže“ (mada se odnosi na prevode en>hr, isto važi i za hr>en):
„Naglasili bi da kod prijevoda inozemne visokoškolske kvalifikacije sudski tumači nisu ni nadležni ni kompetentni samostalno interpretirati izvorno stečeni naziv naveden u kvalifikaciji i umjesto njega navoditi naziv (po njihovom mišljenju ekvivalentne) hrvatske kvalifikacije.
Spomenut ćemo kao primjer najčešće slučajeve kada se, zbog samostalne interpretacije sudskog tumača, npr. Bachelor degree sa stranog jezika prevodi s diplomiram...
... isto kao što se završetkom studija u Republici Hrvatskoj ne može steći titula naziva Bachelor of Arts budući da u Hrvatskoj ne postoji studij čijim se završetkom stječe takvo zvanje.“
(http://www.sudacka-mreza.hr/public/vt_faq.htm#prijevodi_inoz...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2006-09-06 11:19:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Inače, tek po primeni Bolonjske deklaracije, "bachelor" bi moglo biti ekvivalentno tzv. "prvostupniku", kao što je u Hrvatskoj uvedeno pre dve govine:

"Završetkom preddiplomskog studija stječe se akademski naziv prvostupnik/prvostupnica (baccalaureus odnosno baccalaurea) uz naznaku struke, ako posebnim zakonom nije određeno drukčije."
(http://www.nn.hr/clanci/sluzbeno/2004/2025.htm)

ili, u Srbiji prošle godine:
"Lice koje završi osnovne akademske studije stiče stručni naziv sa naznakom zvanja prvoga stepena akademskih studija iz odgovarajuće oblasti.
...
U međunarodnom prometu i u diplomi na engleskom jeziku, naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 1. ovog člana je bachelor, naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 2. ovog člana je bachelor (appl.), naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 5. ovog člana je master, a naziv koji je steklo lice iz stava 6. ovog člana je Ph. D., odnosno odgovarajući naziv na jeziku na koji se diploma prevodi."
(http://www.parlament.sr.gov.yu/content/lat/akta/akta_detalji...

a mislim da u BiH još uvek nije usvojen sličan zakon.

To sve, naravno, ne važi za staro zvanje "diplomiranog inženjera", na koje se ovo pitanje odnosi.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2006-09-06 19:10:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Primer kako na Columbia University sve titule različite od onih u SAD ne „prevode“ u svoje B.S, B.A. itd, jer su stečene u drugim zemljama po drugim nastavnim planovima i programima, pa se nikako ne mogu automatski izjednačiti:
„Dimitris Anastassiou
Professor of Electrical Engineering
Dipl., National Technical University of Athens (Greece), 1974; M.S., California, 1975; Ph.D., 1979
...
Guillaume Bal
Associate Professor of Applied Ma thematics
Diploma, École Polytechnique, 1993; Ph.D., University of Paris, 1997
...
Predrag Relja Jelenkovic
Associate Professor of Electrical Engineering
Dipl.Ing., Belgrade University, 1991; M.S., Columbia, 1993; M. Phil., 1995; Ph.D., 1996
...
Amiya K. Sen
Professor of Electrical Engineering and of Applied Physics
Dipl., Indian Institute of Science, 1952; M.S., Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1958; Ph.D., Columbia, 1963“
(http://www.engineering.columbia.edu/bulletin/faculty/ )

a isto i na Carleton University, Canada:
„Daniel Feszty
Ph.D., Glasgow
Dipl.Ing. Brno
Assistant Professor
Associate Chair Graduate Studies“
(http://www.mae.carleton.ca/maehtmls/feszty.html)

itd, itd; pogledajte sajtove i drugih univerziteta u SAD i Kanadi.

V&M Stanković
Serbia
Local time: 07:54
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Na osnovu svih prijedloga i navedenih izvora, odlucila sam se za "nesto izmedju", aiko nisam sigurna da je najbolje rjesenje. Ispalo je : Agricultural Engineering Graduate.
Zao mi je sto ne mogu podijeliti bodove na sve vas koji ste se javili. Hvala
na zaista svesrdnoj pomoci i trudu.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Bachelor of Science in Agricultural Engineering


Explanation:
This may be what you need - diplomirani inzenjer poljoprivrede - as opposed to "Nas kum Pera, dipl. agronom", which would be BSc in Agriculture and has nothing to do with engineering per se.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2006-09-06 03:56:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think Ms Stankovic is right. Although the person in question is most likely a holder of a BSc degree, perhaps it would be wise to avoid this kind of pigeonholing. Let others deal with that.

"Graduate engineer OF agriculture" is poor English and a litteral, word-for-word translation of "dipl. inz. poljoprivrede".

"Graduate engineer IN agriculture" is not good because, strictly speaking, agriculture as such is not a branch of engineering, although agricultural engineering is. (For the branches of engineering, see http://www.creatingtechnology.org/branch.htm or http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s37.34.html)... other words, you cannot be an "engineer in agriculture". You can be an "engineer in computer science". A "graduate engineer in agriculture" would be e.g. a bioengineer or a chemical engineer working in agriculture, e.g. on a farm.

If we are to obviate the BSc/MSc dilemma, the proper form would be "graduate in agricultural engineering", unless the person is not an engineer at all but simply a "graduate in agronomy/agriculture/agricultural science" (dipl.agronom etc.).

Hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2006-09-06 04:48:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Graduate agricultural engineer" would perhaps be the best solution of all.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2006-09-06 20:25:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Ni na jedom fakultetu u ex-Yu ne stiče se BSc (ili BA), a složila bih se sa "graduate agricultural engineer" - detaljna argumentacija je u mom predlogu. Inače, na internetu (a naročito na našim sajtovima) može se svašta naći."

I couldn't agree more that you can find all kinds of stuff on "our" sites, but it was actually Ms Stanković who provided links to our sites in support of her solution.

Once again, "graduate agricultural engineer" would be wrong here because an agricultural engineer is someone who has graduated in agricultural engineering, a concept much narrower than agriculture. "Diplomirani inž. poljoprivrede" is simply a graduate in agriculture, not an engineer of any sort.

I understand the need to steer clear of BSc, but one is not allowed to mistranslate the word "inženjer" to achieve that because "inženjer" and "engineer" mean totally different things here. In this case, they're false friends.

As for Ms Stankovic's comment that no University in ex-Yu grants BSc/BA degrees - that's true if by that is meant that diplomas are not issued in English. Of course they're not. That's why translators are there to find equivalent terms in English, not provide misleading word-for-word translations. Finding the words that mean the same in the target language - that's what translators are supposed to do.

As proof that at least someone in ex-Yu regards their "diplomirani inženjeri" as bachelors of science, check out the official site of the Slovenian Government's translation service (http://www.gov.si/evroterm/). Enter "diplomirani" in the search field and look what happens. All these "diplomirani" titles are bachelors of science or art or graduates in whatever (e.g. graduate in philosophy).

The bottom line is: diplomirani inženjer poljoprivrede is not an engineer. The possible choices are:

(1) Bachelor of Science in agriculture
(2) Bachelor of agriculture
(2) Graduate in agriculture.









    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_engineering
Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 22:54
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mihailolja: Graduate agricultural engineer,yes. I see your point, they are not "engineers" per se.
4 hrs
  -> Thanx, but I'm not so sure any more. The "engineer" in "a. e." is misleading because s/he's probably not an "a. e." at all, just smb. who has graduated from whatever dpt. of Polj. fak. 2 choices: (1) BSc in Agriculture or (2) "graduate in agriculture".

agree  Mira Stepanovic
5 hrs

neutral  V&M Stanković: Ni na jedom fakultetu u ex-Yu ne stiče se BSc, a „rangove titula“ nikako ne utvrđuju prevodioci. Složila bih se sa "graduate agricultural engineer" -detalj. argumentacija je u mom predlogu. A na internetu (naročito na našim sajtovima) može se svašta naći.
6 hrs
  -> Definitivno je BSc, a ne MSc (sajt Polj. fak. u Bg). U svakom slučaju nisam za "engineer" jer je "inženjer" ovde samo titula u rangu BSc, a "agr. engineer" je nešto sasvim drugo. Dakle, ili "BSc in agriculture/B. of agr." ili "graduate in agriculture".

disagree  Gordana Smith: not so sure..
9 hrs

agree  Veronica Prpic Uhing
1 day14 hrs

agree  xxxPoveyTrans
9 days
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