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каул имам за правене

English translation: I have a vow to make

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07:12 Jul 17, 2005
Bulgarian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Bulgarian term or phrase: каул имам за правене
I have been asked to provide a translation of "Тръгнала е малка мома", but I am stuck on this sentence. Can anyone help me out, please? The context is:

Стой почакай малка моме
каул имам за правене
ще ти кажа една дума
една дума вярна дума.
Sandra van Bijsterveld
Netherlands
Local time: 01:35
English translation:I have a vow to make
Explanation:
I'd think, in this particular context, "каул имам за правене" has more or less connotations of taking a vow to love and be faithful to this "little lass".

Wait, oh, wait you little lass,
I have a vow to make;
I’ll tell you a single word,
A single word, a true word.

Please also note that each line in the original has equal number of metric syllables, which I have preserved in the translation.


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Note added at 3 hrs 16 mins (2005-07-17 10:28:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I forgot to mention that the original is a trochaic octameter which is quite a challenge to preserve in the English translation. Not impossible of course but somewhat time-consuming. :) I\'ve done it halfway.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 59 mins (2005-07-17 14:11:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear 7777, you don\'t have to be sarcastic in order to say what you think on a question like this. It is not worth the time. What I am saying is that by the way this stanza sounds as a separate meaningful unit without any further context, I would think that it seems to convey something more passionate and deeper than betting a lass that she’d be, say, outdanced. If you would look closer at the third and the forth lines, “една дума” is repeated three times. What word would that be?
Selected response from:

Yavor Dimitrov
Bulgaria
Local time: 02:35
Grading comment
I understand that marriages were often arranged by bets in the past (and I also found that каул = облог link on the Internet), but since no details of such bet are given, I prefer vow (or indeed pledge) here. Thank you all for your help, insights and explanations.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +4I have a vow to make
Yavor Dimitrov
5 +1I have a BET (WAGER, PLEDGE) to makexxx7777
5каул = облог = bet, wagerxxx7777


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


52 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
каул имам за правене
каул = облог = bet, wager


Explanation:
каул = облог = bet, wager

"Стой, почакай, малка моме,
каул имам за правене,
ще ти кажа една дума,
една дума, вярна дума." =

"Now wait you there little girl,
I have this bet to make you,
I have this word to say to you,
And a true word it will be."

"каул" is an old Turkish or rather Indo-Arabic borrowing in North-East Bulgaria's spoken language from the mid-17th to late 19th, early 20th century. Please see the following:
http://liternet.bg/publish14/n_nenov/tabachka/08_35.htm
http://textove.com/print.php?song=3269


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 41 mins (2005-07-17 11:53:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The olden dialect word \'ЉЂ“‹\' is definitely not in use in the modern Bulgarian language anymore. That\'s why you won\'t find it in any contemporary dictionary or text. Furthermore, no native speaker of the Bulgarian language who is younger than 125 years of age would know such word or would have ever used it or heard of it. My advantage (in this case) is that I am older than that and I can remember my grandmother using this obsolete archaism from time to time. It MOST DEFINITELY means, or used to mean rather, \'ЋЃ‹Ћѓ\' (bet, wager, something that is laid, staked, or pledged typically between two parties on the outcome of a contest or any contingent issue). It certainly DOES NOT mean \'ЋЃ…’\' (vow, solemn vow, pledge). It would be only too logical for any stranger to the erstwhile Bulgarian language to ask why would any man make a bet with, probably, the girl of his fancy, the one who in today\'s terminology would be his date or girlfriend. (Mind you, though, that even today you can \'make a bet with your girlfriend\'. See http://www.ubersite.com/m/38220 .) Here\'s why: Once upon a time, when I was a young lad in the then Ottoman Empire (Osmanlı İmparatorluğu) there existed two (2) main ways for young men and women to get married. One was by way of arranged marriages. (Well, like it or not, Bulgaria was back then an Oriental country and in certain ways still is.) The other way was through BETS. Young men would often lie in wait for a girl of their fancy on her way to the village draw well or water springs to fetch water for the household. Or, they would meet an attractive girl at the weekly chain dance gathering in the central square. And when they were lucky to encounter their dream girl face to face (who would otherwise be too shy to hang around with young men) lads would often MAKE HER A BET (ЉЂ“‹, ЋЃ‹Ћѓ) to either outdance her, or reap more harvest faster, or win some other old-fashioned contest. If the girl were to lose the BET, she would have no choise (they were women of honour back then) but marry the boy. That\'s the explanation behind the BETTING here. It was only later, before the altar, that they would exchange VOWS (ЋЃ…’€, Љ‹…’‚€ ‡Ђ ‚џђЌЋ‘’) to love and honour each other till ... you know. (Not till divorce only, anyways.) That\'s it. Have fun with the trochaic octameter challenge and make sure to watch the equal number of metric syllables in the original!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 13 mins (2005-07-17 12:25:54 GMT)
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A final note here. Back then most things in life were betted on. You may have heard of Bulgaria\'s legendary master architect Kolyu Ficheto (http://www.abvg.net/galleries/gallery28/). The legend has it that he would bet his life on most of his projects. He would make a bet, or a PLEDGE if you prefer, that he would complete a project within a certain period of time and within a certain budget, or else ...
Yor safest bet in translating this most challenging word of yours may be actually the English \'PLEDGE\' since it kind of means both a bet, a wager, and a vow, a promise.
It\'s a different issue though how PLEDGE would fit into the trochaic octameter of the original and whether you would count it as one or two syllables with a view to preserving the equal number of metric syllables. You may actually need the sheet music for the song to be able to achieve that. I used to have it once, but my cat is now too lazy and the mice have long devoured the paper.


    Reference: http://liternet.bg/publish14/n_nenov/tabachka/08_35.htm
    Reference: http://textove.com/print.php?song=3269
xxx7777
Native speaker of: Native in BulgarianBulgarian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Yavor Dimitrov: Г-н 7777, моля ви, не ми приписвайте реплики, които не съм и никога не бих направил. Имам предвид втория ви постинг. Толкова ли ви е трудно да оставите това озлобление, с което общувате?
9 hrs
  -> Да, драги. Толкова ни е трудно. Невъзможно ни е. Is there not an issue of perception here, though? Remember: 'We see things not as they are, but as we are.' (Още един трудно преводим "постинг", нали?!) Та дека, почитаеми, го доловихте озлоблението?

disagree  akqj10: Гордостта от новопочернелите ти части не е повод да ги размахваш из тоя corner, в който се отбиват не само българи. Явно има доста сол да ядеш, докато станеш преводач. Виждам, че другите Прозианци ти дават съвети (добронамерени)- що не ги слушаш?
22 days
  -> 'Щото ми е писнало от простотия и глупост, и от простаци и глупаци като Ваша милост. А вие, любезни atche84, има доста да ми дишате праха, докато достигнете поне сянката ми в областта на преводаческото изкуство и опит. Дерзайте, драги. И да го ...

agree  klyunchev: Според Речник на българския език значи облог и т. н.
2214 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
каул имам за правене
I have a vow to make


Explanation:
I'd think, in this particular context, "каул имам за правене" has more or less connotations of taking a vow to love and be faithful to this "little lass".

Wait, oh, wait you little lass,
I have a vow to make;
I’ll tell you a single word,
A single word, a true word.

Please also note that each line in the original has equal number of metric syllables, which I have preserved in the translation.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 16 mins (2005-07-17 10:28:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I forgot to mention that the original is a trochaic octameter which is quite a challenge to preserve in the English translation. Not impossible of course but somewhat time-consuming. :) I\'ve done it halfway.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs 59 mins (2005-07-17 14:11:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dear 7777, you don\'t have to be sarcastic in order to say what you think on a question like this. It is not worth the time. What I am saying is that by the way this stanza sounds as a separate meaningful unit without any further context, I would think that it seems to convey something more passionate and deeper than betting a lass that she’d be, say, outdanced. If you would look closer at the third and the forth lines, “една дума” is repeated three times. What word would that be?

Yavor Dimitrov
Bulgaria
Local time: 02:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in BulgarianBulgarian
PRO pts in category: 30
Grading comment
I understand that marriages were often arranged by bets in the past (and I also found that каул = облог link on the Internet), but since no details of such bet are given, I prefer vow (or indeed pledge) here. Thank you all for your help, insights and explanations.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  IskraA: vow
4 hrs
  -> IskraA, благодаря за подкрепата, но нека все пак да видим целия текст на песента. Надявам се питащата да го публикува тук.

agree  akqj10: Явно в нашето малко ъгълче се е пръкнал калайджия (по собствените му думи), който се изживява като рапър с всичките му вулгаризми. Иначе от няколкото му изяви, които видях в Проз-а, тепърва има да се учи на преводачество.
22 days
  -> Благодаря за подкрепата. За съжаление преводачеството не е занаят или поне аз не гледам на него като такъв. Преводачеството не търпи арогантност и неандерталско тупане по гърдите "вижте ме какъв майстор съм!".

agree  xxx7777: Добре, atche 84. Ще му кажа. Иди сега да се прескачаш с маймуните, а аз ще ида да си калайдисвам hardware-а.
22 days
  -> Благодаря, 7777. Нека се опитаме да запазим добрия тон и цели на този форум. Никой с никого не се състезава, не си мерим "уредите". :) Аз лично влизам тук, защото научавам на нови неща и срещам професионализъм. Нека бъдем етични.

agree  Stefan Balchev
42 days
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
каул имам за правене
I have a BET (WAGER, PLEDGE) to make


Explanation:
Following hereinbelow are several excerpts, ALL OF THEM FROM OBSOLETE BULGARIAN FOLK SONGS, where the olden word КАУЛ was used in the SOLE possible meaning of BET, WAGER. Those were the times, esteemed Mr. Tangra & Ms. Iskra. Young men and women would make BETS with each other on a regular basis, just as described in my previous suggestion and lengthy explanation thereto. THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLES (SEE BELOW) ARE AN IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF THE NOTES TO MY PREVIOUS SUGGESTION.

MR. TANGRA, UNLIKE THE BULGARIA OF THE 17TH, 18TH, 19TH, AND 20TH CENTURY, THIS IS NOW A FREE WORLD AND EVERYONE IS FREE TO MAKE THEIR CHOICES -- RIGHT OR WRONG. WHETHER YOUR SERENE HIGHNESS WILL BE CONVINCED AND WHETHER THE ASKER WILL TRANSLATE HER SONG CORRECTLY OR INCORRECTLY, I COULD NOT CARE LESS. BOTTOM LINE IS: КАУЛ = ОБЛОГ = BET.

THE EASIEST WAY OUT OF THIS SILLY OBSTINACY IS A COMPROMISE -- USE PLEDGE. PLEDGE DOES CARRY BOTH MEANINGS (A BET, WAGER, PLEDGE, on the one hand, & A VOW, SOLEMN PROMISE, COMMITMENT, PLEDGE, on the other.)

But let's be clear on this -- "КАУЛ" means "ОБЛОГ", 'BET, WAGER' ONLY AND NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING ELSE.

I'LL MAKE YOU A BET (КАУЛ ВИ СТОРВАМ, ПОЧИТАЕМИ) THAT YOU CAN'T PROVE ME WRONG. WAS IT NOT YOU WHO BROUGHT UP THE SAYING 'IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN LUMP IT! A WHILE AGO?! SO LONG, MR. TANGRA, SIR.

EXAMPLES, OOPS, EVIDENCE:

http://liternet.bg/folklor/sbornici/senki/02.htm
2. ОВЧАР НАДСВИРВА ЮДА-САМОВИЛА
...
- Юдо, юдо, самовило!
Дай да сторим верен КАУЛ,
я да свирим, пък ти играй;
ако си те я надсвиркам,
че я тебе да погубем,
пък ко си ме надиграш,
че ти мене да погубиш!
...

http://textove.com/text.php?song=3269
КАУЛ клавела Мария,
КЛАВЕЛА клавела сус царют,
сос царют, бегут, везирут,
сус везирут, сус пашата.
Пашата даве пашарет,
царю си даве царщинта,
Мария даве, предаве
нейното лице пугача,
черните йочи хельмази,
да влезе в Църното море,
да намере гранка кипариц, (x2)
да го донесе пред царют.
Влезла Мария в морето,
кога отишла в средата,
намерила гранка кипариц
и се върнала надзъде.
Викнала Мария, запела:
"Дади си царю царщина,
дади си везир везирлък,
ви намерих гранка кипариц,
ки ви я донесум пред васка."
...

http://liternet.bg/publish14/n_nenov/tabachka/08_35.htm
8.35. СТОЯН ОТРЯЗВА ГЛАВАТА НА ТЪРГОВЧЕ
СЛЕД ОБЛОГ, ЧЕ ЩЕ ИЗЛЪЖЕ ЖЕНА МУ
...
А Стоян му отговори:
- Ако ми булче излъжеш,
всичко ще ти харижа,
ако не можеш го излъшеш,
главата ще ти отсека
с моята сабя френгия.
И са се КАУЛ хванали,
тогава търговче отива
на Стоянови порти похлопал,
Стояновата невеста, тя се
отвътре обажда:
-Че кой ми хлопа на порти.
Търговче отвън обажда:
- Я, хайде да те заведа
на хайдушката механа,
че са бай Стоян убили.
Булче се отвътре обажда:
- Кривото търсил и намерил.
Търговче се назад повърна
и на Стоян продумал:
- Байне ле, бате Стояне,
не може ти булче излъжа
и аз те моля, байне Стояне
да ми главата харижеш.
Но Стоян му отговорил:
- Аз ти прошка не давам,
КАУЛ не развалям.
И му главата отсякъл
от неговата сабя френгия.

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Note added at 1 day 7 hrs 13 mins (2005-07-18 14:25:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, that courting and dating customs in Bulgaria at the times when those lovable folk songs were created had nothing to do with the noble troubadours, the poetry of fin\'amor, the Romeo-and-Juliet-style love stories, the romantic amours, and all the courtship patterns characteristic of mediaeval and Industrial-Revolution Europe.

Courtship in the Balkans back then was considered more a business move than a romantic interlude for young men, as all of a woman\'s property reverted to him upon marriage. Young women were looked upon not much differently than, you\'ll forgive me, livestock. Just as a man needed to acquire livestock to ensure his own and his family\'s livelihood, he had to acquire also a wife to ensure procreation of offspring. From the time she was young, a woman was groomed for this role in life--dutiful wife and mother.

It was not uncommon back then, as it is not uncommon today, for men to bet on (their) livestock. It was not uncommon back then for men to procure a wife by way of BETTING. (Thank God it is not the case anymore!) Sad, reprehensible, disgraceful,and desrving contept?! Yes, it is. But ... those were the days, my friends. And we cannot change the past by misinforming foreigners about the way things used to be. I\'ve had enough of studying manipulated history and reading fake stories.

However... As is well known, you can take the horse to the river, but you can\'t make it drink. I therefore have NO intention of preventing anyone to make their romantic interpretations of Bulgaria\'s hoary past as reflected in its folk art. Good luck.

xxx7777
Native speaker of: Native in BulgarianBulgarian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Yavor Dimitrov: Obviously, you haven't read my latest posting or you refuse to acknowledge it. Please note that I am not trying to prove you wrong. I don't dispute the dictionary meaning of "каул". I've simply offered my interpretation of those four song lines.
1 hr
  -> Sir, I don't give a rat's ass what exactly you've been trying to prove. Point is, your 'interpretation' is wrong & misguiding. I've met a number of foreign admirers of Bulgaria's folk art. They DO deserve to get the picture of BG's olden times RIGHT.

agree  klyunchev: Според Речник на българския език значи облог и т. н.
2214 days
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PRO (3): xxx7777, Yavor Dimitrov, Vladimir Shapovalov


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Jul 17, 2005 - Changes made by Vladimir Shapovalov:
LevelNon-PRO » PRO


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