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燕蓟

English translation: Yan and Ji

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Chinese term or phrase:燕蓟
English translation:Yan and Ji
Entered by: ysun
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21:18 Mar 29, 2007
Chinese to English translations [PRO]
Geography
Chinese term or phrase: 燕蓟
《史记》描写大禹治水,从如今的西至陕西、甘肃,东至山东省的黄河出口处,南至长江以南的浙江,北至燕蓟的河北,所有的江河湖泊,都治理好了。
Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 01:55
FYI
Explanation:
Yes, 燕蓟 refers to the two ancient states of Yan and Ji, which were located in the south-west of current Beijing.
See http://www.china-up.com/yuedu/bzbs/beijing.htm#t
“商代北京地区有燕和蓟两个小封国。公元前1045,周武王灭商后,封召公于燕,封尧的后裔于蓟。”

Nowadays, it might refer to the current 燕蓟平原. 河北省 is part of the 燕蓟平原.

The phrase should be understood as describing an area “西至如今的陕西、甘肃,东至黄河出口处,南至浙江,北至河北 of 燕蓟(平原)”, i.e., an area from the current 陕西、甘肃 in the west to 黄河出口处 in the east, and from 浙江 in the south to 河北 of 燕蓟 in the north.


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Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-30 02:13:59 GMT)
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燕蓟地区是个历史的概念。应该说“燕蓟“是在今河北省以北,有专家说是指如今北京广安门一带。
Selected response from:

ysun
United States
Local time: 12:55
Grading comment
Thanks, everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4FYIysun
3 +3the ancient states of Yan and Ji / ancient region of Yanji
Naikei Wong
2 +2the Beijing area
chica nueva


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
FYI


Explanation:
Yes, 燕蓟 refers to the two ancient states of Yan and Ji, which were located in the south-west of current Beijing.
See http://www.china-up.com/yuedu/bzbs/beijing.htm#t
“商代北京地区有燕和蓟两个小封国。公元前1045,周武王灭商后,封召公于燕,封尧的后裔于蓟。”

Nowadays, it might refer to the current 燕蓟平原. 河北省 is part of the 燕蓟平原.

The phrase should be understood as describing an area “西至如今的陕西、甘肃,东至黄河出口处,南至浙江,北至河北 of 燕蓟(平原)”, i.e., an area from the current 陕西、甘肃 in the west to 黄河出口处 in the east, and from 浙江 in the south to 河北 of 燕蓟 in the north.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2007-03-30 02:13:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

燕蓟地区是个历史的概念。应该说“燕蓟“是在今河北省以北,有专家说是指如今北京广安门一带。

ysun
United States
Local time: 12:55
Native speaker of: Chinese
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks, everyone.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Naikei Wong
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Naikei

agree  chica nueva
10 hrs
  -> Thanks, lai an!

agree  tianhe51
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, tianhe51!

agree  isahuang
20 hrs
  -> Thanks, Tingting!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the ancient states of Yan and Ji / ancient region of Yanji


Explanation:
= vicinity of modern Beijing and Tianjin

FYI:

古都北京(5DVD9)精裝版: 紀錄: DVD9: 影視頻道: 卓越網- 簡 - [ 轉為繁體網頁 - Translate this page ]公元前十一世紀時,薊國是統治中國北方的西周王朝的一個分封國。春秋(公園前770年—前476年)中期,位於薊國西南面的另一個封國燕,吞沒了薊,並遷都於薊城。 ...
www.joyo.com/detail/product.asp?prodid=bkys720348&ref=GS&ui... - 39k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages


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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-30 04:17:46 GMT)
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Sorry, I missed the

But I already mentioned that it's the same thing as "vicinity of modern Beijing and Tianjin"

Do a casual search and you will find:
Originally,
薊 = 北京广安门一带
燕 = 琉璃河一带

Later, Yan annexed Ji and Beijing became the state's capital. This is high school Chinese history!!...:-D


http://cul.beelink.com.cn/20060803/2122469.shtml
到了夏商时期,北京湾的腹地有了古燕国和古蓟国。古燕国大约在如今的琉璃河一带,古蓟国在其北面,大约在如今的北京广安门一带。




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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-30 04:18:20 GMT)
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Correction: sorry I missed the 如今 part...

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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-03-30 04:27:08 GMT)
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Just like 长江以南的浙江, it's actually a *rough* synomyn pair.

Naikei Wong
Local time: 01:55
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 18
Notes to answerer
Asker: We have to take into account "如今的", don't we? If yes, it will sound confusing to use "ancient states"...


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ysun
2 hrs
  -> Thank you Mr. Sun!...:-)

agree  chica nueva
13 hrs
  -> Thank you and well-met, Lai An...:-)

agree  isahuang
23 hrs
  -> Thank you and well-met, Tingting...:-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
the Beijing area


Explanation:
Agree with other answerers.

Here is a text about the founding of Kaifeng as the Song Capital - it uses the term twice 又与燕蓟接壤,北据燕蓟:

当时,建都开封颇有争议。大臣以为开封形势涣散,乎野开阔,无险阻可守,为四战之地,又与燕蓟接壤,一旦契丹南侵,如何防御?宋太祖哈哈大笑道:“尔等只见四战之害,不见四通之利。自东晋永嘉之乱,中原士族南迁,三百年江南小安自养,如今已是富甲天下。故隋帝开凿运河,贯通南北。开封成为水陆都会,漕引江淮,利尽南海;西依崤函,北据燕蓟。来日北伐契丹,朝发而夕至,若周世宗然。”于是以洛阳为西京,设置留守,以备天下之急;以河北大名府为北京,契丹一有动静,即在大名开帅府;相应的开封称作东京,应天府称作南京。当下便命丞相赵普经划督建都城。赵普指派能工巧匠,按洛阳规模绘制图样。
-> the name may come from the Liao era

Here is a text about Beijing:
古燕蓟城,隋唐幽州 根据史书记载,在三千年前的周代,北京一带原有两个诸侯国–燕国、蓟国,燕侯打败蓟侯,迁都于蓟。蓟城就是今日北京的前身,其 ... 北京城的城址,自蓟城迄今,虽历数千年,但位置一直都在永定河穿越西山,流入北京平原的古渡口处。

Here is another text I have translated about Beijing:
'City Construction Beijing is one of China's most historic cities and ancient capitals. It arose because of its important location for communications, and it was as the capital of the Yan State, Ji, that it first appeared in the historical records. In the Liao, it was known as Nanjing, and was a secondary capital. '

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Note added at 13 hrs (2007-03-30 10:46:57 GMT)
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IMO Yan is a well-known historical name for Beijing - I have seen it before. This is the first time I have seen Yanji. 燕 state and 蓟 city appear on my 秦末农民起义图.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2007-03-30 10:51:42 GMT)
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燕蓟 -> 古燕(国)蓟城一带? 见 '蓟城就是今日北京的前身' above

chica nueva
Local time: 05:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Naikei Wong
11 hrs

agree  ysun
18 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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