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投名状

English translation: proof of allegiance


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Chinese term or phrase:投名状
English translation:proof of allegiance
Entered by: Wenjer Leuschel
Options:
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19:15 Jul 21, 2008
Chinese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Common Usage
Chinese term or phrase: 投名状
这个问题问的不是电影《投名状》的英文译名,而是按照汉语习惯"投名状"的意思应该如何翻译成英语。

TIA!
Wenjer Leuschel
Taiwan
Local time: 18:23
pact of brotherhood
Explanation:
The concept is certainly not unique to China, nor would I guess that it is as recent in origin as Water Margin...

Cultures throughout the world and throughout history have had ceremonies to unite those unrelated by blood into relationships of loyalty akin to brotherhood.

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Note added at 6 hrs (2008-07-22 01:27:24 GMT)
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in the context that you provided in your comments above, Wenjer, I would say a "manifestation of allegiance" or "proof of allegiance" would work...

i.e. He proved his allegiance to the gang by killing his own father.
i.e. His killing of his own father was a manifestation of his allegiance to the gang.
Selected response from:

Aaron Gilkison
Local time: 06:23
Grading comment
Thank you very much! And also thanks to other colleagues who have made suggestions for a good translation.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5"Tou-Ming-Zhuang" (Token of allegiance, loyalty, devotion)
AJL MedCom
4pact of brotherhood
Aaron Gilkison
2application to the mafia by chopping off someone's head
Jason Young


  

Answers


46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
"Tou-Ming-Zhuang" (Token of allegiance, loyalty, devotion)


Explanation:
The concept of 投名狀 is unknown in the occident or in folklore. The definition of 投名狀 is 新入夥的強盜,須殺一人並將人頭交給首領,用以表示真誠,稱為「投名狀」。水滸傳˙第十一回:「是教你下山去殺得一個人,將頭獻納,他便無疑心,這個便謂之『投名狀』。」

Thus it may be construed as a "token of allegiance", "token of loyalty","token of devotion". As with all concepts foreign to a language, transliteration is recommended as the most appropriate course, followed by an explanatory footnote. In this case it would be "Tou-Min-Zhuang."

The genesis of the word (and concept) derives from the novel "Water Margin" the first vernacular chinese novel.

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Note added at 49 mins (2008-07-21 20:04:55 GMT)
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无论是哪路英雄,要入那水泊梁山,得交个投名状来。
水浒传第十一回写王伦要求林冲拿一个人头来当见面礼。 “王伦道:既然如此,你若真心入伙,把一个"投名状"来。林冲便道:"小人颇识几字,乞纸笔来便写"。朱贵笑道:”教头你错了。但凡好汉们入伙,须要纳投名状,是教你下山去杀得一个人,将头献纳,他便无疑心,这个便谓之投名状。林冲道:这事也不难,林冲便下山去等,只怕没人过。
参考资料:水浒传 第十一回

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Note added at 51 mins (2008-07-21 20:06:46 GMT)
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Additionally, "token" can be substituted with "pact" should you decide to emphasize the contract-based nature of the agreement.

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Note added at 53 mins (2008-07-21 20:08:59 GMT)
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The use of "blood pact" is not recommended as it does not mean the exchanging/consumption/mingling of the applicant's blood.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2008-07-21 23:58:03 GMT)
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No you cannot use manifestation as it is incorrect; manifestation refers to a phenomenon and is not interchangeable with "pact" or "token" (pact or token means "狀 " in "投名狀")

AJL MedCom
Canada
Local time: 06:23
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for your details explanation. Could it be taken as a "manifastation" so as to say "a manifestation of allegiance"? 有点像“跟着领导做一件坏事,保证你有一百个好处”的说法?

Asker: http://cdict.net/q/manifestation / I was just wondering why a new gangster should kill anyone who doesn't belong to the gang to "manifest" his pertinence to or his allegiance with the gang. Let me think about it and figure it out sometime later.

Asker: By the way, are you sure that there is no similar ritual in western civilization (if we may call it civilization)?

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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
application to the mafia by chopping off someone's head


Explanation:
TRY.

Jason Young
China
Local time: 18:23
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
pact of brotherhood


Explanation:
The concept is certainly not unique to China, nor would I guess that it is as recent in origin as Water Margin...

Cultures throughout the world and throughout history have had ceremonies to unite those unrelated by blood into relationships of loyalty akin to brotherhood.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2008-07-22 01:27:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in the context that you provided in your comments above, Wenjer, I would say a "manifestation of allegiance" or "proof of allegiance" would work...

i.e. He proved his allegiance to the gang by killing his own father.
i.e. His killing of his own father was a manifestation of his allegiance to the gang.

Aaron Gilkison
Local time: 06:23
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you very much! And also thanks to other colleagues who have made suggestions for a good translation.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yeah, your suggestion reminds me of "Remus" and "Ramulus" in David Morrell's "Brotherhood of the Rose." Reading it was a wow for me. Thanks. Lin Chong thought that he should write done something to "manifest" his allegiance to the "brothers," but he was asked to kill someone/anyone to show his allegiance. That was it, the "proof of allegiance."

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