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A question of coding

English translation: written Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Chinese term or phrase:いゅ
English translation:written Chinese (Mandarin, Cantonese, etc.)
Entered by: Roddy Stegemann

09:32 May 28, 2003
Chinese to English translations [Non-PRO]
Science / linguistics - Cantonese
Chinese term or phrase: A question of coding
As a newcomer to this list and student of written and spoken Cantonese, it is probably useful to acquire a quick lesson in the list's customs. Obviously our list's generous creator defines Chinese as a technical device for character encoding and little more.

In brief, is it appropriate on this list to use いゅ to refer to written Cantonese. Would anyone confuse it with something else? If so, then how does one refer to the written form of spoken Cantonese? Are these not to different matters?

(traditional Chinese encoded)
Roddy Stegemann
United States
Local time: 09:42
good question
Explanation:
in general most who frequent the site (including askers and answerers) refer いゅ as the STANDARD chinese, which is the written form of mandarin. Unless the asker specify a particular dialect in the question, he/she will most likely get a written mandarin response.

It also seems that simplified form of chinese is used most frequently on this site as well.

specifying the target dialect and the desired characters you want when asking a question is your best bet. also helpful if the asker indicates he/she wants latin transliteration, be it pinyin for mandarin, WG, IPA for cantonese.

big5 is the most popular traditional chinese code, while GB and HZ are for simplified form.

unicode is gaining popularity here as well, it can be used for either forms of written chinese.

since cantonese is used mostly in the spoken form, a cantonese-specific question should be, IMHO, given a cantonese vernacular response. In which case not all the characters are available 100% of the time.

check out the following topic in the Chinese discussion forum of the site.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-05-29 00:06:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There\'s a grey area concerning \"written cantonese\". Basically written cantonese should be similar, if not the same, to written mandarin, just that it\'s READ outloud in Cantonese.

One may notice a difference in the choice of vocabulary in a chinese text written by a mandarin or a cantonese speaker, however. It is also not uncommon for the author to mix in cantonese expressions and local usage, hence creating different degrees of style and \"vernacularity\", if there\'s such a word.

differences between vocabulary is most evident in foreign names and loan words:
taxi - compare: , 璸祘ó, ó
new zealand - compare: 穝﹁孽, ﹁孽

Certainly, vernacular cantonese CAN be written, sometimes with a bit of creativity using special and unmapped characters. WRITTEN vernacular cantonese means you are written down EXACTLY what would\'ve been said colloquially. Often this is only done on websites and in literature that are informal, and sometimes even vulgar.

Ex: The elevator fell from the 10th floor, no one was hurt.
ど诀眖加糧,⊿Τ端 (man.)
场óミo玒加禴辅o兢,蒒端 (cantonese vernacular)

óミ, o玒, o兢 - (these 3 characters current don\'t exist in Big-5 as single units)

\"written\" cantonese SHOULD be the same as the mandarin version. But this is a common problem for many cantonese-speakers who would sometimes write a version somewhere between the mandarin one and the cantonese vernacular. The mistakes are not usually found in the vocabulary but often with the grammar.
The following version displays \"cantoism\":
场ど诀加糧,礚端

hope this doesn\'t confuse you even more.... :o)
Selected response from:

Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 10:42
Grading comment
This is a very easy answer to grade, since it is the only response. Thank you for the link, it was a good introduction to the list. Though there are probably few linguists that would call Mandarin and Cantonese dialects of the same language, certainly I have learned that one should always state the target language (written or spoken) when posting a question. What I have not learned is how to express these differences in written Cantonese.

Please note how I have entered the answer to this question in my glossary.
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +6good question
Kvasir


  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +6
good question


Explanation:
in general most who frequent the site (including askers and answerers) refer いゅ as the STANDARD chinese, which is the written form of mandarin. Unless the asker specify a particular dialect in the question, he/she will most likely get a written mandarin response.

It also seems that simplified form of chinese is used most frequently on this site as well.

specifying the target dialect and the desired characters you want when asking a question is your best bet. also helpful if the asker indicates he/she wants latin transliteration, be it pinyin for mandarin, WG, IPA for cantonese.

big5 is the most popular traditional chinese code, while GB and HZ are for simplified form.

unicode is gaining popularity here as well, it can be used for either forms of written chinese.

since cantonese is used mostly in the spoken form, a cantonese-specific question should be, IMHO, given a cantonese vernacular response. In which case not all the characters are available 100% of the time.

check out the following topic in the Chinese discussion forum of the site.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-05-29 00:06:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There\'s a grey area concerning \"written cantonese\". Basically written cantonese should be similar, if not the same, to written mandarin, just that it\'s READ outloud in Cantonese.

One may notice a difference in the choice of vocabulary in a chinese text written by a mandarin or a cantonese speaker, however. It is also not uncommon for the author to mix in cantonese expressions and local usage, hence creating different degrees of style and \"vernacularity\", if there\'s such a word.

differences between vocabulary is most evident in foreign names and loan words:
taxi - compare: , 璸祘ó, ó
new zealand - compare: 穝﹁孽, ﹁孽

Certainly, vernacular cantonese CAN be written, sometimes with a bit of creativity using special and unmapped characters. WRITTEN vernacular cantonese means you are written down EXACTLY what would\'ve been said colloquially. Often this is only done on websites and in literature that are informal, and sometimes even vulgar.

Ex: The elevator fell from the 10th floor, no one was hurt.
ど诀眖加糧,⊿Τ端 (man.)
场óミo玒加禴辅o兢,蒒端 (cantonese vernacular)

óミ, o玒, o兢 - (these 3 characters current don\'t exist in Big-5 as single units)

\"written\" cantonese SHOULD be the same as the mandarin version. But this is a common problem for many cantonese-speakers who would sometimes write a version somewhere between the mandarin one and the cantonese vernacular. The mistakes are not usually found in the vocabulary but often with the grammar.
The following version displays \"cantoism\":
场ど诀加糧,礚端

hope this doesn\'t confuse you even more.... :o)


    Reference: http://www.proz.com/topic/3510
Kvasir
Canada
Local time: 10:42
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in pair: 123
Grading comment
This is a very easy answer to grade, since it is the only response. Thank you for the link, it was a good introduction to the list. Though there are probably few linguists that would call Mandarin and Cantonese dialects of the same language, certainly I have learned that one should always state the target language (written or spoken) when posting a question. What I have not learned is how to express these differences in written Cantonese.

Please note how I have entered the answer to this question in my glossary.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  zwcorp
19 mins
  -> thankx
agree  Georgia Kuo
3 hrs
  -> thankx
agree  Kevin Yang
3 hrs
  -> thankx
agree  Francis Fine: thanks a million
3 hrs
  -> no, thank YOU :o)
agree  Jacob Jou
14 hrs
  -> thankx
agree  Bin Zhang
15 hrs
  -> thankx
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