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tordiran

English translation: spiral (spirally) fluted columns

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04:48 Oct 31, 2002
Croatian to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / architecture
Croatian term or phrase: tordiran
"kanelirane i tordirane kolone setnice"

(I'm posting the same question again as, for reasons unknown to me, I can't access the reply I received.)
Pavle Perencevic
Canada
Local time: 20:04
English translation:spiral (spirally) fluted columns
Explanation:
kaneliran - fluted
tordiran - spiral-shaped, spirally twisted

1. Greek/Roman Cities on the Silk Road

... The city contains the only
known spiral-fluted columns in the world. Simeon, Basilica of St. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/8987/silkroad.htm

2. SPIRAL FLUTED COLUMNS - APAMEA STOCK PHOTO REFERENCE CODE: syadhch051 The Main Colonnade of The Roman City of Apamea
www.waxvisual.com/wvsyt/syadhch051.htm

3. Two leaf-shaped motifs arranged in a V-shaped fashion adorn the capital of
this column, resting on a fluted base and a spirally fluted column. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/5685/xarolla.html

4. Muzej hrvatskih arheoloskih spomenika Split - odabrani predmeti
... Pri kraju svake stranice smješten je po jedan tordirani stupić s kapitelom ...

www.mdc.hr/hrv-arh-split/hr/4-06predmeti.html

5. Dubrovacki muzeji - Kulturno povijesni muzej

... Centralni motiv edikule s vratašcima koja zatvaraju sustav tajnih ladica, nadvišen je razlomljeim zabatom i flankiran tordiranim stupićima. ...
www.mdc.hr/dubrovnik/hr/kulturnopovijesni/ z7-namjestaj/z7-02.html

6. Kultura:SORKOČEVIĆEV LJETNIKOVAC NA LAPADU
... Trijem je podijeljen sa sedam križnih traveja, a prema vrtu s ribnjakom se otvara elegantnim polikružnim arkadama na tordiranim stupovima. ...
www.croland.com/marina/clanak3/870003.htm
Selected response from:

Vesna Zivcic
Local time: 05:04
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3spiral (spirally) fluted columns
Vesna Zivcic
5 -1tordated
imbehind
4 -1twisted columns
Floramye


  

Answers


1 day1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
twisted columns


Explanation:
Evo linkova koji ce potkrijepiti moj prijedlog:

1. Rome - ... The three short aisles of the chapel are separated by two rows of columns - in total, eight twisted columns from the original church, they date to the 4th ...
http://www.holycross.edu/departments/visarts/projects/kempe/... search within this site


2.Buffet 2 Corps/ Vaisselier - ... is accented with small carvings. 3 shelves are hidden behind 2 glass doors which rest between twisted columns. At the bottom of ...
http://pages.nicolemaleineantiques.com/91/InventoryPage/1210... search within this site


3.Stromberg Architectural Products, Inc - ... Non-Standard columns, twisted columns, ornamented shafts, double entasised, square columns and other unique styles are available. ...
http://www.strombergarchitectural.com/products/columns/colum...


Pogledajte i link dolje; nadam se da ce vam slika i kontekst (4. recenica) biti od pomoci.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-11-04 05:55:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hm... procitala sam komentar \"imbehind\"-a i koliko god da zvuci ubjedljivo i strucno, u kontekstu opisa kolonade setnice nikako mi ne stoji; i to iz jednostavnog razloga sto sam pronasla puno vise primjera u prilog \"twisted columns\" dok za primjenu \"tordated columns\" niti jednoga.
Jedini navod za pojam \"tordated\" je slijedeci:

Creating lyrical facades (Delta nummer 5 van donderdag 8 februari ... - ... Architect Karel Jan Vollers (49) has invented a cheaper way to build tordated glass facades than the methods currently used by celebrity architects, like Frank ...
http://www.delta.tudelft.nl/jaargangen/33/5/p4atwistandbuild... search within this site

Nekoliko komentara:

1. Primjer navodi staklenu fasadu i nalazi se na nizozemskom website-u. Ukoliko zelimo naci izvorno englesku terminologiju, koristimo izvorno engleske tekstove.
2. U drugom linku koji navodno potvrdjuje cijelu teoriju, http://www.math.arizona.edu/~models/Ruled_Surfaces/
niti jednom se ne spominje \"tordated\" ali zato se navodi \"twisted\":
3. Cilj prijevoda je jasnoca, stoga koristenje izraza za koji se ne moze naci potvrda niti u jednoj publikaciji s engleskog govornog podrucja ne pomaze tome cilju.

Ne osporavam da \"tordiranost\" moze imati drugo znacenje od \"zavijenosti\", ali pokusajte vizualno predociti sebi te \"kanelirane i tordirane kolone setnice\" - zar vama one ne izgledaju zavijeno s zlijebovima? Nakon toga predoceno prevedite na jezik razumljiv covjeku s engleskog govornog podrucja. \"Twisted columns\" mi se jos uvijek cini kao najbolje rjesenje.


    Reference: http://public.srce.hr/hpm/p0174002.htm
Floramye
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  imbehind: tordirane plohe nisu twisted (mada ono tor.. asocira na torziju) nego bash tordated
1 day15 hrs
  -> Pogledajte moj dodatni komentar.
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2 days18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
tordated


Explanation:
Doslovno prevedeno je tordated. Ovaj izraz koristi se skoro iskljucivo u arhitekturi.

(u slucaju tordiranih stupova, (narodski) moglo bi i twisted, ali kako je strucan text...)

Nalazimo primjer na stranici:
http://www.delta.tudelft.nl/jaargangen/33/5/p4atwistandbuild...

"Vollers decided not to research the construction of fully and double-bent planes. Instead, he described his tordated surfaces as being constructed of straight lines with different rotations, because making these planes is much easier and cheaper than constructing fully bent planes. "

A znacenje mu je vezano na specificnu vrstu nacina opisa (i projektiranja) kompleksnih povrshina. Naime dvoosno zakrivljene povrshine mogu se relativno jednostavno opisati (i konstruirati) pomocu mnogo malih ravnih ploha.

U najuzem smislu Tordirane povrshine su povrshine koje se mogu matematicki definirati uz pomoc familije pravaca a konstruirati pomocu stapova ili ravnih segmenata ploha.

Najcesci izraz u upotrebi za takve plohe i izvan polja arhitekture je ruled surfaces.

Za ilustraciju takvih ploha mozete pogledati na ovaj link:
http://www.math.arizona.edu/~models/Ruled_Surfaces/

U arhitekturi se izraz tordated osim za opisivanje takvih ploha upotrebljava i u sirem kontekstu opisivanja bilo kakvih ploha ili konstrukcija koje su izvedene ili samo pomocu RAVNIH shtapova ili pomocu RAVNIH povrsina.

tordirane kolone su najvjerojatnije primjer koristenja uzeg konteksta izraza tordiran, vjerojatno su oblika uzvojnice (helix).

(Naime Helikoida je tordirana (ili ruled surface) povrshina)

Dakle najbolji prevod bi bio TORDATED.

P.S.
(Poslao sam i prije detaljan text, ali je izgleda crko server paaa...)



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-11-03 00:29:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ako smijem jos jednom komentirati Floramiin odgovor da bude jasnije:

\"tordiran\" na stranici:

http://public.srce.hr/hpm/p0174002.htm

se odnosi na drshku (rukohvat) onog topuza a ne na onaj uzvojiti dio. Naime drska je (izgleda) osmerokutna prizma - a to je tordirana povrshina valjka - tj. valjak prikazan pomocu 8 malih, ravnih ploha.

tordirani stupovi vjerojatno i jesu u obliku uzvojnice, ali mogu biti i kao osmerokutne prizme ili drugachiji.

dakle tordiranost nije uzvojitost, nego neshto drugo.

Pozdrav !!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-11-04 18:16:28 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

molim Pavla da posalje siri kontekst texta, a ako moze i sliku.

pitanje je da li se tordiran odnosi na uzvojitost ili specificni nacin izvedbe te uzvojitosti.

(Inace ne iskljucujem mogucnost krive upotrebe rijeci tordiran u izvornom textu, po principu \"kalodonta\")

PS: Stupic moze biti uzvojit, spiralan, ali pri tom moze i nemora biti tordiran.


    Reference: http://www.delta.tudelft.nl/jaargangen/33/5/p4atwistandbuild...
    Reference: http://www.math.arizona.edu/~models/Ruled_Surfaces/
imbehind
Local time: 05:04
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Floramye: Ne nalazim niti jedan primjer pojma "tordated" ili "tordated columns" u literaturi s engleskog govornog podrucja. Nema je niti u Websterovom rjecniku...
1 day7 hrs
  -> U Websteru ne postoji ni rijec smiley,,,
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
spiral (spirally) fluted columns


Explanation:
kaneliran - fluted
tordiran - spiral-shaped, spirally twisted

1. Greek/Roman Cities on the Silk Road

... The city contains the only
known spiral-fluted columns in the world. Simeon, Basilica of St. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/8987/silkroad.htm

2. SPIRAL FLUTED COLUMNS - APAMEA STOCK PHOTO REFERENCE CODE: syadhch051 The Main Colonnade of The Roman City of Apamea
www.waxvisual.com/wvsyt/syadhch051.htm

3. Two leaf-shaped motifs arranged in a V-shaped fashion adorn the capital of
this column, resting on a fluted base and a spirally fluted column. ...
www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/5685/xarolla.html

4. Muzej hrvatskih arheoloskih spomenika Split - odabrani predmeti
... Pri kraju svake stranice smješten je po jedan tordirani stupić s kapitelom ...

www.mdc.hr/hrv-arh-split/hr/4-06predmeti.html

5. Dubrovacki muzeji - Kulturno povijesni muzej

... Centralni motiv edikule s vratašcima koja zatvaraju sustav tajnih ladica, nadvišen je razlomljeim zabatom i flankiran tordiranim stupićima. ...
www.mdc.hr/dubrovnik/hr/kulturnopovijesni/ z7-namjestaj/z7-02.html

6. Kultura:SORKOČEVIĆEV LJETNIKOVAC NA LAPADU
... Trijem je podijeljen sa sedam križnih traveja, a prema vrtu s ribnjakom se otvara elegantnim polikružnim arkadama na tordiranim stupovima. ...
www.croland.com/marina/clanak3/870003.htm

Vesna Zivcic
Local time: 05:04
Native speaker of: Croatian
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement. KudoZ.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  bergazy
1 day14 hrs

agree  mare8
9 days

agree  hrvaska
78 days
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