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De algemene vertaling is 'human biology' en dat komt wel ongeveer neer op wat hij bedoelt, maar dan wel vanuit antroposofisch perspectief. Dus je moet het (weer) in de context op een passende manier verwerken.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 16 mins (2010-11-09 21:45:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Steiner's visie op antropologie vs zijn antroposofie (study of/meditation on man):
There was already a science of the study of "material man" called "anthrop-ology" when Steiner came to name his study of the multi-faceted spiritual and material human being, so he was forced to choose a different name and he chose "anthropo-sophy." Rightly understood anthropology is the study of man from a single perspective, the evidence of our senses only. Like a single photograph of a tree, a study of man from one perspective leaves out more than it tells. Here's what he calls anthropology:
[page 77] In this context, we are applying the name "anthropology" to the totality of our physical studies of the human being, including not only what is often attributed to it in the narrower sense of the word, but also human morphology, biology, and so on.
As for what he calls anthroposophy:
[page 81] Anthroposophy will study human beings as they present themselves to physical observation, but in the practice of this observation it will try to derive indications of a spiritual foundation from the physical phenomena. In this way, anthroposophy can make the transition from anthropology to theosophy.
I think that might actually end up being, "CREATE the accepted UK Steiner terminology", rather than "FIND the accepted UK Steiner terminology". As usual, a lot of what eventually becomes accepted, is first discussed here and in other translator hangouts. But you are basically right. I was merely hoping someone here might have clues re. standard Steiner/Waldorf (German-) Dutch-English translations.
generally used in the UK. I once had to translate a university heavy duty sociology document written in Nl but quoting a very famous Fr sociologist. Which meant I had to find what words were used in English sociology in reference to his works. It's a lot of research but there's no escaping it. You have to find the accepted UK Steiner terminology
Michael, are you translating original work or a discussion by someone else? Either way, yes, I have been to libraries to retrieve previous translated work by authors for whom I was translating. It is pretty much a requirement IMHO. A miss here or there is okay, but to be out of style by using your own vocabulary would be unacceptable.
Writeaway, all I have is this Dutch text, but as far as I can see the German would be "Menschenkunde". For example, Steiner's book of lectures (vier voordrachten), "Menskunde innerlijk vernieuwd", seems to be a translation of the German original, "Meditativ erarbeitete Menschenkunde". It is indeed quite a tricky subject, because I am translating for an English (University) audience, but terms that people are more familiar with in Holland and Germany than they are here in the UK. A Steiner/Waldorf Dutch-German-English Glossary would be nice ;)
Anything in Dutch (or English) about Steiner will be a translation/adaptation of the original German. A translation of a translation is always risky. Imo it's best to look at Steiner's original writings and/or officially accepted translations into English
@ Michael: don't capitalize these words in your sentence unless you refer to an institute like the University for Spiritual Science. Humanities might be another good word, but not in your given sentence: "Steiner stresses the importance for pedagogues to study man, to meditate on man, and to remember man." Remembering might be better translated as 'beholding': Steiner may have seperated his two examples into remembering and beholding or inner and outer and drawn a line between the two and between practitioners of one or the other. Perhaps here in 2007, we have serious difficulty drawing lines between such things inner and outer, online/offline, real/virtual, true/false and so on. http://www.breakingopenthehead.com/forum/archive/index.php/t...
Josephine Isaacs (X)
Australia
22:42 Nov 9, 2010
I agree with Lianne that the term anthropology does not fit here; I would use words like "study of man", which fits better with the Dutch style (geesteswetenschappen en menskunde); but I am not certain that this the perfect term. It would fit in the last sentence.
...zou spirituele wetenschappen zijn. M.i. komt deze hele terminologie erg nauwkeurig, dus afhankelijk van wie de auteur is... een 'insider' of een 'verslaggever', iemand die vergelijkingen maakt of iemand die een bepaald standpunt naar voren wil brengen.... dat zijn allemaal factoren die m.i. meespelen bij het bepalen van de beste vertaling... ;-)
Het woord antroposofie heeft Steiner gekozen voor 'zijn (type) menskunde' - ter onderscheiding van de reeds bestaande antropologie. Als je bekend bent met antroposofische teksten (wat ik ben, in de Nederlandse taal, althans) dan zou antropologie niet in de gevraagde zin gebruikt worden. Steiner vraagt ons niet ons te bezinnen op antropologie, maar op 'de mens' en menskunde te bestuderen op antroposofische (en niet antropologische) wijze.
The link I provided in my peer agree below contains frames, so the correct page is not shown when you click on the link. Here is an extract from the frames page:
Antropologie (menskunde) is de wetenschappelijke studie die zich bezighoudt met het bestuderen van het gedrag van de mens. Hierbij bestudeert men de biologische en het culturele verleden van de volken en vergelijkt men deze met de huidige samenlevingen.
De algemene vertaling is 'human biology' en dat komt wel ongeveer neer op wat hij bedoelt, maar dan wel vanuit antroposofisch perspectief. Dus je moet het (weer) in de context op een passende manier verwerken.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 16 mins (2010-11-09 21:45:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Steiner's visie op antropologie vs zijn antroposofie (study of/meditation on man):
There was already a science of the study of "material man" called "anthrop-ology" when Steiner came to name his study of the multi-faceted spiritual and material human being, so he was forced to choose a different name and he chose "anthropo-sophy." Rightly understood anthropology is the study of man from a single perspective, the evidence of our senses only. Like a single photograph of a tree, a study of man from one perspective leaves out more than it tells. Here's what he calls anthropology:
[page 77] In this context, we are applying the name "anthropology" to the totality of our physical studies of the human being, including not only what is often attributed to it in the narrower sense of the word, but also human morphology, biology, and so on.
As for what he calls anthroposophy:
[page 81] Anthroposophy will study human beings as they present themselves to physical observation, but in the practice of this observation it will try to derive indications of a spiritual foundation from the physical phenomena. In this way, anthroposophy can make the transition from anthropology to theosophy.
Lianne van de Ven United States Local time: 23:53 Native speaker of: Dutch PRO pts in category: 52
Grading comment
Thanks, Lianne!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Lienne, I was thinking that perhaps "spiritual science" might also be an option in my text. See e.g.: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=rudolf+steiner#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=rudolf+steiner+spiritual+science&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=87a337d6de7bbd6f
Asker: I am thinking of using the phrase "human knowledge", in places where "spiritual science" doesn't seem to fit. I think it could be used as the object (of study) of Spiritual Science, perhaps.
1 hr confidence:
study of humanity
Explanation: This is another possibility
Josephine Isaacs (X) Australia Local time: 13:53 Works in field Native speaker of: Dutch, English PRO pts in category: 16
Explanation: Social Sciences are subjects that use research and analysis to explain human behaviour. These subjects include anthropology, psychology, and sociology, history, political science and economics
Verginia Ophof Belize Local time: 21:53 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
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peer agreement (net): +2
