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excedent

English translation: surplus

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:excedent
English translation:surplus
Entered by: Alexander Schleber
Options:
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18:34 Feb 19, 2005
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Insurance
Dutch term or phrase: excedent
"In het voorstel van Generali is het excedent arbeidsongeschiktheidspensioen niet betrokken. Bij de vergelijking zullen wij deze kostencomponent bij Alliance ook weglaten."

??
Alexander Schleber
Belgium
Local time: 04:19
surplus
Explanation:
Agree, isn't this a Belgian text?

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Note added at 23 mins (2005-02-19 18:57:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Generali proposal does not deal with / relate to the surplus disability pension.......

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Note added at 24 mins (2005-02-19 18:58:46 GMT)
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excess is fine too

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 31 mins (2005-02-19 20:05:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IF FACT the correct wording would be:

The Generali propOsal does not deal with (relate to) the disability pension surplus

In this sense surplus is the correct term.

Examples:

Whose Surplus Is It, Anyway? WASHINGTON (ELB 1999) - When a pension plan
with pre-determined benefit levels has a surplus, does ...
www.saspc.com/art_712.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Royal Ordnance Pensioners Association
The Pension Surplus* Scandal. During the period 1989 to 1998, Actuarial Reviews
of the RO Pension Fund showed the following \"surplus\" funding situations:-. ...
www.cix.co.uk/~bicesterh3/ropa/surplus.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Pension Surplus
... CIBC Mellon issued T-4A slips to all members of the McMaster Salaried Pension Plan
who participated in the pension surplus distribution and received some or ...
www.workingatmcmaster.ca/ link.php?link=Job+Matters%3ASurplus - 19k - 17 Feb 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Ownership of pension surplus
... For simplicity, I have defined that a pension surplus occurs when… ... In any dispute
over pension surplus, there is the necessity of expert actuarial reports. ...
www.ucalgary.ca/MG/inrm/finplan/ retire/surplus/pension_surplus.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages



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Note added at 4 hrs 57 mins (2005-02-19 23:31:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And what about Belgian authors or chocolates Fred, surely they ring a bell? What is this site coming too when people have to get so petty - if you dare to say Flemish there are those that argue that the term is Belgian Dutch, I mean really?!

If you have a valid neutral or disagree about the quality of the actual answer provided, by all means, but if this is the best you can offer just because the answer overlaps with yours - and in event in light of what Jarry has now written may even be wrong too - I give up, how close-minded can one get?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 59 mins (2005-02-19 23:33:16 GMT)
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About 60% of the Belgians use Dutch (=\"Nederlands\") as offical standard language, which is a Germanic language. They live in the north of Belgium. \"Dutch\" (Nederlands\") is NOT the same like \"Deutsch\" (=\"German\"), although they have a common Germanic origin. In Belgium Dutch is sometimes wrongly called \"Flemish\". There indeed exist some Flemish regional languages and dialects, but there doesn\'t exist a Flemish standard language. Like Flemish regional languages and dialects are familiar with Dutch, people who live in Flanders use Dutch as official standard language.
From the Indo-European family of languages, the Germanic dialects, and by the year 400 AD after a further differentiation, the West Germanic dialects had emerged. The Dutch language, like English, Frisian and German developed out of these Germanic dialects.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-19 23:43:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Call it what you want - a language, a dialect - the debate frankly doesn\'t interest me

Fact is the forum has a specific section for what is popularly referred to as Flemish and the asker might have been more successful in placing his question there. For that reason and for that reason alone I pointed that out.

He chose for whatever reason not to.

He still received the same assistance from the answerers nonetheless.

What is the point in placing a neutral on somebody\'s answer (given regardless) for pointing out a text appears to have originated in Belgium when the Belgian government itself doesn\'t term the language Flemish?

If the \"competition\" goes to people\'s heads to this level that they have to scrounge to find neutrals and disagrees - more the pity.

Stick to the linguistic issues of the answer itself. Don\'t bore us with irrelevancies at this time of night please.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 21 mins (2005-02-19 23:55:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note for Jarry: - now that we can get back to the serious business of translating!

Hi there,

Starting to think along your suggested lines but wouldn\'t a top-up pension scheme be something along the lines of a \"bovenminimale (pensioen)regeling\"?

Tks
Debs

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 8 hrs 3 mins (2005-02-21 02:37:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mr ten Berge now deems it necessary to disagree when he previously placed an irrelevant neutral - oh well whatever keeps such a \"serious linguist\" and \"genuine Dutchman\" happy I suppose - still don\'t see what it has to do with the answer provided which coincidentally neatly overlaps with his own! Wonder who has KudoZitis now?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 54 mins (2005-02-21 05:29:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I fully understand that one can become passionate about the name afforded a language or dialect - fact is no-one here created the issues you take so seriously - so lobby the Eurocrats in that regard or start and/or continue a forum thread if you must bring it onto site - to neutral and then later disagree with an answer on that basis without providing anything to negate the substance of the answer ITSELF - and ESPECIALLY when you have provided the same answer is nothing other than petty and close-minded.

It was merely pointed out to asker that the text appeared to have originated from Belgium (i.e. Belgian) so that he could consder reposting it to the Flemish site and wow and behold we have ANOTHER storm in a teacup about nothing.

I\'d normally agree with an answer that is similar to my own. I haven\'t here with yours for the simple reason I think Jarry may in fact be correct and I\'m still debating the point.

And just for the record, I likewise think Marijke\'s coining of the phrase ProZitis is hysterical - perhaps the difference is I can laugh at myself. Try it sometimes - and take a well-deserved break from being such a serious linquist (sorry you must have meant linguist)....;-)
Selected response from:

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 03:19
Grading comment
Thanks to all for all the learned contributions, even if the syntax got a little heated here and there. Looking at the entire context, I have decided to go with this answer. The Belgian origion of the text, where "excedent" is probaly a variation of the French "excédant" (surplus, excess) also helps.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +4surplus
Lawyer-Linguist
4 +2top up schemexxxjarry
3 +2excss (of loss) / surplusFred ten Berge
4excludes (in this context)
Marijke Mayer


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
top up scheme


Explanation:
Supplementary Scheme: A scheme to provide benefits over and above the benefits given under another scheme. Also called a Top-up Scheme. In the UK, may often refer to an unapproved scheme.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 28 mins (2005-02-19 22:03:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://money.msn.co.uk/MyMoney/Insight/MoneySpinner/ThisWeek...
S2P is an earnings-related pension top-up scheme, introduced in 2002. It is paid IN ADDITION TO the basic state pension and replaces an earlier scheme, called the State Earnings-Related Pension Scheme, or Serps, which was abolished in April 2002 (although Serps benefits accrued up to that date will be paid at retirement).



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 35 mins (2005-02-19 22:09:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.eiro.eurofound.eu.int/1998/12/feature/fr9812147f....
This law was the result of a debate launched by insurance companies in the early 1990s and aimed to:
provide private sector workers with a \"third-tier\" optional complementary top-up scheme based on pension funds (capitalisation) - ie, whereby individual workers save for their own retirement - in parallel to the \"pay-as-you-go\" basic scheme and compulsory complementary schemes;

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 04:19
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 152

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Fred ten Berge: Worth much more serious consideration.
1 day1 hr
  -> Thanks

agree  Lawyer-Linguist: Have since confirmed and seen the full context and agree with this option//Would take more than close-mindedness to keep me away.;-)
1 day11 hrs
  -> Thanks Debbie. Thank goodness there are still a few genuine English linguists visiting this site.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
excludes (in this context)


Explanation:
I mainly agree with the other answerers here, but sometimes life is refreshingly simple. For the purposes of readability, you could possibly reword the sentence saying that the insurance excludes (in this context) DISABILITY (INCAPACITY FOR WORK)

ONTARIO IRONWORKERS BENEFIT PLAN - When You Retire
... Full coverage (does not include disability insurance), $65. Partial coverage (includes
basic dental coverage only and excludes disability income insurance), $48 ...
www.ontarioironworkers.com/O_retire.htm - 25k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's

circa 122 Google hits voor "excludes disability"

Marijke Mayer
Netherlands
Local time: 04:19
Native speaker of: Dutch
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Fred ten Berge: Very refreshingly simple option!
21 hrs
  -> Laten we het hopen!

disagree  xxxjarry: It does not necessarily exclude Occupational Disability Insurance. It does, however, exclude the top-up part of it. Your suggestion implies taking liberties with the source text,which I would reject outright if editing were my responsibility. Sour grapes?
1 day5 hrs
  -> Speak for yourself, Jarry!

neutral  Lawyer-Linguist: have to agree with Jarry here, this changes the source text
1 day7 hrs
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
excss (of loss) / surplus


Explanation:
Ref.: Bank- en Verzekrings Lexicon
Hopelijk heb je hier iets aan.
Desgewenst zoeken we hier in een groepje rustig verder!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2005-02-19 18:57:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Correctie: excss --> excess

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 5 hrs 28 mins (2005-02-21 00:03:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Zoals gezegd: \"rustig\"!!!
One positive result of these undesired hectics
[for genuine Dutchmen (m/v): \"Ieder nadeel heb z\'n voordeel!\"]
is:
Marijke coining the marvelous term \"ProZitis\".
Might \'KudoZitis\' be equally appropriate?

Congratulations to the superior scorer of hectics!
My few Kudoz hereby are granted to anyone interested.

Note to the moderator: all this concerns linguistics.

Fred ten Berge
Local time: 04:19
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ariser
58 mins
  -> Dank je, Ariser!

agree  Marijke Mayer: Ja, laten we vooral met z'n allen rustig verder zoeken! :-)
7 hrs
  -> Dank je Marijke voor je positieve benadering!

agree  11thmuse: Excedent - definition from gcide Excedent \Ex*ced"ent\, n. [L. excedens, -entis, p. pr. of excedere. Excess. [R.] [1913 Webster]
16 hrs
  -> Dank je Henk, vooral ook voor leerzaam commentaar! Ever more serious doubts about chocolates and the like, though.

disagree  xxxjarry: Excess as suggested here is the portion of an insurance claim which, under the terms of the policy, will not be paid out as part of the damages. It is also known as deductible and has nothing at all to do with the question asked here.
1 day13 hrs
  -> Thanks for the interesting comment!

neutral  Lawyer-Linguist: Agree with comment above in respect of the excess here - you are referring incorrectly to a "schade-excedent" - Elm Street is back on the map I see - :-)
1 day14 hrs
  -> Thanks Southern Heavens, there are still llinguistic lectures on babbling and variations in Benelux texts - - -
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
surplus


Explanation:
Agree, isn't this a Belgian text?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2005-02-19 18:57:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Generali proposal does not deal with / relate to the surplus disability pension.......

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2005-02-19 18:58:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

excess is fine too

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 31 mins (2005-02-19 20:05:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

IF FACT the correct wording would be:

The Generali propOsal does not deal with (relate to) the disability pension surplus

In this sense surplus is the correct term.

Examples:

Whose Surplus Is It, Anyway? WASHINGTON (ELB 1999) - When a pension plan
with pre-determined benefit levels has a surplus, does ...
www.saspc.com/art_712.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Royal Ordnance Pensioners Association
The Pension Surplus* Scandal. During the period 1989 to 1998, Actuarial Reviews
of the RO Pension Fund showed the following \"surplus\" funding situations:-. ...
www.cix.co.uk/~bicesterh3/ropa/surplus.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Pension Surplus
... CIBC Mellon issued T-4A slips to all members of the McMaster Salaried Pension Plan
who participated in the pension surplus distribution and received some or ...
www.workingatmcmaster.ca/ link.php?link=Job+Matters%3ASurplus - 19k - 17 Feb 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Ownership of pension surplus
... For simplicity, I have defined that a pension surplus occurs when… ... In any dispute
over pension surplus, there is the necessity of expert actuarial reports. ...
www.ucalgary.ca/MG/inrm/finplan/ retire/surplus/pension_surplus.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 57 mins (2005-02-19 23:31:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And what about Belgian authors or chocolates Fred, surely they ring a bell? What is this site coming too when people have to get so petty - if you dare to say Flemish there are those that argue that the term is Belgian Dutch, I mean really?!

If you have a valid neutral or disagree about the quality of the actual answer provided, by all means, but if this is the best you can offer just because the answer overlaps with yours - and in event in light of what Jarry has now written may even be wrong too - I give up, how close-minded can one get?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 59 mins (2005-02-19 23:33:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

About 60% of the Belgians use Dutch (=\"Nederlands\") as offical standard language, which is a Germanic language. They live in the north of Belgium. \"Dutch\" (Nederlands\") is NOT the same like \"Deutsch\" (=\"German\"), although they have a common Germanic origin. In Belgium Dutch is sometimes wrongly called \"Flemish\". There indeed exist some Flemish regional languages and dialects, but there doesn\'t exist a Flemish standard language. Like Flemish regional languages and dialects are familiar with Dutch, people who live in Flanders use Dutch as official standard language.
From the Indo-European family of languages, the Germanic dialects, and by the year 400 AD after a further differentiation, the West Germanic dialects had emerged. The Dutch language, like English, Frisian and German developed out of these Germanic dialects.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-19 23:43:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Call it what you want - a language, a dialect - the debate frankly doesn\'t interest me

Fact is the forum has a specific section for what is popularly referred to as Flemish and the asker might have been more successful in placing his question there. For that reason and for that reason alone I pointed that out.

He chose for whatever reason not to.

He still received the same assistance from the answerers nonetheless.

What is the point in placing a neutral on somebody\'s answer (given regardless) for pointing out a text appears to have originated in Belgium when the Belgian government itself doesn\'t term the language Flemish?

If the \"competition\" goes to people\'s heads to this level that they have to scrounge to find neutrals and disagrees - more the pity.

Stick to the linguistic issues of the answer itself. Don\'t bore us with irrelevancies at this time of night please.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 21 mins (2005-02-19 23:55:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note for Jarry: - now that we can get back to the serious business of translating!

Hi there,

Starting to think along your suggested lines but wouldn\'t a top-up pension scheme be something along the lines of a \"bovenminimale (pensioen)regeling\"?

Tks
Debs

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 8 hrs 3 mins (2005-02-21 02:37:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mr ten Berge now deems it necessary to disagree when he previously placed an irrelevant neutral - oh well whatever keeps such a \"serious linguist\" and \"genuine Dutchman\" happy I suppose - still don\'t see what it has to do with the answer provided which coincidentally neatly overlaps with his own! Wonder who has KudoZitis now?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 54 mins (2005-02-21 05:29:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I fully understand that one can become passionate about the name afforded a language or dialect - fact is no-one here created the issues you take so seriously - so lobby the Eurocrats in that regard or start and/or continue a forum thread if you must bring it onto site - to neutral and then later disagree with an answer on that basis without providing anything to negate the substance of the answer ITSELF - and ESPECIALLY when you have provided the same answer is nothing other than petty and close-minded.

It was merely pointed out to asker that the text appeared to have originated from Belgium (i.e. Belgian) so that he could consder reposting it to the Flemish site and wow and behold we have ANOTHER storm in a teacup about nothing.

I\'d normally agree with an answer that is similar to my own. I haven\'t here with yours for the simple reason I think Jarry may in fact be correct and I\'m still debating the point.

And just for the record, I likewise think Marijke\'s coining of the phrase ProZitis is hysterical - perhaps the difference is I can laugh at myself. Try it sometimes - and take a well-deserved break from being such a serious linquist (sorry you must have meant linguist)....;-)

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 03:19
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thanks to all for all the learned contributions, even if the syntax got a little heated here and there. Looking at the entire context, I have decided to go with this answer. The Belgian origion of the text, where "excedent" is probaly a variation of the French "excédant" (surplus, excess) also helps.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: considering the word is actually French and for a few other reasons too, would assume this is Belgian, not Dutch.
3 mins
  -> tks!

agree  Ariser
1 hr
  -> tks!

disagree  Fred ten Berge: We (several serious linquists) tried to take this question serious, No question whether or not the text is Flemish. Never before heard about a Belgian text - - -. There are a few more options about the translation, though.
1 hr
  -> As in text originating from Belgium - many argue that Flemish isn't the right term either - but if want to NOW DISAGREE, provide these options at the very least - how utterly petty to take out your failed socio-political attempts on a colleague.

agree  Marijke Mayer: Debbie, I think you are suffering from an acute case of 'ProZitis'. Come on, relax!
7 hrs
  -> I'm relaxed :-) But maybe a doctor should come along and provide some relief from the irksome pollen in the air - can't stop sneezing you know - automatic response to these irritations!.....;-)

agree  11thmuse: I like chocolates. And I like the logic of your arguements, Debbie.
17 hrs
  -> Me too Henk, pay a fortune for Belgian chocolates down here but they definitely exist and are worth every cent.....;-)...., thanks!

agree  xxxjarry: For a dispassionate view of the Belgians' obsession with their language issues, and the Dutch people's overrated opinion of their linguistic (read English) abilities, look no further. A native speaker of English will give you a good dosis of 'Prozitis'.
1 day15 hrs
  -> yes was just like a meer sniffle .......;-) On a serious note though, I think top-up scheme is the choice asker should make.
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