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deze regels lenen zich... (whole phrase)

English translation: Due to their nature, these rules are capable of direct application.

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:deze regels lenen zich... (whole phrase)
English translation:Due to their nature, these rules are capable of direct application.
Entered by: MoiraB
Options:
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09:23 Feb 18, 2005
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
Dutch term or phrase: deze regels lenen zich... (whole phrase)
In a text about aspects of social security in the draft ILO Maritime Convention:

De normbepalingen van de ILO-verdragen op het terrein van de sociale zekerheid richten zich tot de wetgever en bevatten voorschriften met betrekking tot het beschermingsniveau en dekkingsgraad van de sociale zekerheid. De beschermde personen kunnen aan deze verdragen niet rechtstreeks een recht ontlenen. De aanwijsregels in het coördinatierecht hebben een geheel ander rechtskarakter. Zij bevatten regels die bepalen welke wetgeving op een werknemer of zelfstandige van toepassing is in het geval van een (potentieel) wetsconflict tussen twee landen. **Deze regels lenen zich naar hun aard wel voor rechtstreekse werking.**

Can anyone put this in plain English for me? Not sure what it's saying.
MoiraB
France
Local time: 14:11
Due to their nature, these rules are capable of direct application.
Explanation:
they lend themselves to direct application - literally

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 mins (2005-02-18 09:28:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or can be applied directly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-02-18 09:38:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in other words: it is not necessary for legislation in the country in question to be enacted first incorporating these rules - they do not have to be first transposed into national legislation - the party to whom they are addressed can rely on them directly.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 37 mins (2005-02-18 14:01:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My colleague\'s link doesn\'t seem to work but there is a definte distinction in law between something taking immediate effect and being directly applicable.

I can also pick up numerous examples in English of contracts which happen to have a clause that states something takes immediate effect. It doesn\'t help however if it doesn\'t happen to be at all relevant to the point in issue.

However the context here is draft LEGISLATION in the form of a convention. It is clearly referring to the application of the various forms regulations thereunder. The first address the legislature and reeequite its intervention, the second doesn\'t and is therefore directly applicable.

I trust these clears the issue and that we are at least not even working with a contract here!



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 42 mins (2005-02-18 14:05:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

should read: and require its intervention

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

... This concept means that if an EC piece of legislation has Direct Effect then such
law in effect grants rights to individuals and those rights must be upheld by ...
www.ecic.ie/legislation/process/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislation UK | European Court of Justice and occupational ...
... of community law; and to decide on the validity and meaning of community legislation. ...
rule of law of which there are two rules; the direct effect of community ...
sharingpensions.co.uk/legislation.htm - 74k - Cached - Similar pages

Vol.15 - 3. Policy-making and legislation
... in all Member States\' 24 - ie, without any need for further legislation. ... 3.59
Regulations, Directives and Decisions are all capable of having \'direct effect\'. ...
www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/report/volume15/chapterg.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

EUR-Lex - About EU law - The ABC of Community law - THE ...
... to its perceived national interest is not given effect. ... Direct applicability, which
means that the legal acts ... they may be described as \'European legislation\'. ...
europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/about/abc/abc_20.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Medicare legislation article 2-04.qxp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... questions, the uncertainties surrounding this particular piece of legislation, and
the ... For qualifying amendments, the direct effect of the amendment should be ...
www.fasb.org/articles&reports/ medicare_tfr_feb_2004.pdf - Similar pages

Haven legislation: effect of legislation
Haven legislation: effect of legislation. Legislation of this kind does not necessarily
raise vast sums of revenue in the direct sense but, in an indirect sense ...
www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/ ithmanual/html/ITH1400/15_0033_ITH1463.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

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... Effect of legislation on the use ... Data were collected through direct observation by
2 observers (TLB and CC) using a standardized data collection sheet. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/5/592.pdf - Similar pages

eCMAJ -- LeBlanc et al. 166 (5): 592
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Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets. ...
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[ More results from www.cmaj.ca ]

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... the effect of direct legislation. ... theoretically derived prediction of the effect
of direct legislation should address these problems directly. ...
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File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... of proof applies, as well as removing a number of exceptions from the legislation. ...
courts will give any piece of Community Law with direct effect priority over ...
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/ legislation/key_legislation_1003.doc


just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

... This concept means that if an EC piece of legislation has Direct Effect then such
law in effect grants rights to individuals and those rights must be upheld by ...
www.ecic.ie/legislation/process/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislation UK | European Court of Justice and occupational ...
... of community law; and to decide on the validity and meaning of community legislation. ...
rule of law of which there are two rules; the direct effect of community ...
sharingpensions.co.uk/legislation.htm - 74k - Cached - Similar pages

Vol.15 - 3. Policy-making and legislation
... in all Member States\' 24 - ie, without any need for further legislation. ... 3.59
Regulations, Directives and Decisions are all capable of having \'direct effect\'. ...
www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/report/volume15/chapterg.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

EUR-Lex - About EU law - The ABC of Community law - THE ...
... to its perceived national interest is not given effect. ... Direct applicability, which
means that the legal acts ... they may be described as \'European legislation\'. ...
europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/about/abc/abc_20.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Medicare legislation article 2-04.qxp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... questions, the uncertainties surrounding this particular piece of legislation, and
the ... For qualifying amendments, the direct effect of the amendment should be ...
www.fasb.org/articles&reports/ medicare_tfr_feb_2004.pdf - Similar pages

Haven legislation: effect of legislation
Haven legislation: effect of legislation. Legislation of this kind does not necessarily
raise vast sums of revenue in the direct sense but, in an indirect sense ...
www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/ ithmanual/html/ITH1400/15_0033_ITH1463.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
... Effect of legislation on the use ... Data were collected through direct observation by
2 observers (TLB and CC) using a standardized data collection sheet. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/5/592.pdf - Similar pages

eCMAJ -- LeBlanc et al. 166 (5): 592
... other online articles - autres articles en direct. ... Research Recherche.
Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/5/592 - Similar pages
[ More results from www.cmaj.ca ]

[PDF] Policy Consequences of Direct Legislation in the States Theory ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... the effect of direct legislation. ... theoretically derived prediction of the effect
of direct legislation should address these problems directly. ...
www.iandrinstitute.org/.../ Hug%20-%20Policy%20Consequences%20of%20I&R%20in%20the%20States%20IRI.pdf - Similar pages

[DOC] Key Anti Discrimination Legislation
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... of proof applies, as well as removing a number of exceptions from the legislation. ...
courts will give any piece of Community Law with direct effect priority over ...
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/ legislation/key_legislation_1003.doc


just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

... This concept means that if an EC piece of legislation has Direct Effect then such
law in effect grants rights to individuals and those rights must be upheld by ...
www.ecic.ie/legislation/process/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislation UK | European Court of Justice and occupational ...
... of community law; and to decide on the validity and meaning of community legislation. ...
rule of law of which there are two rules; the direct effect of community ...
sharingpensions.co.uk/legislation.htm - 74k - Cached - Similar pages

Vol.15 - 3. Policy-making and legislation
... in all Member States\' 24 - ie, without any need for further legislation. ... 3.59
Regulations, Directives and Decisions are all capable of having \'direct effect\'. ...
www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/report/volume15/chapterg.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

EUR-Lex - About EU law - The ABC of Community law - THE ...
... to its perceived national interest is not given effect. ... Direct applicability, which
means that the legal acts ... they may be described as \'European legislation\'. ...
europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/about/abc/abc_20.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Medicare legislation article 2-04.qxp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... questions, the uncertainties surrounding this particular piece of legislation, and
the ... For qualifying amendments, the direct effect of the amendment should be ...
www.fasb.org/articles&reports/ medicare_tfr_feb_2004.pdf - Similar pages

Haven legislation: effect of legislation
Haven legislation: effect of legislation. Legislation of this kind does not necessarily
raise vast sums of revenue in the direct sense but, in an indirect sense ...
www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/ ithmanual/html/ITH1400/15_0033_ITH1463.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
... Effect of legislation on the use ... Data were collected through direct observation by
2 observers (TLB and CC) using a standardized data collection sheet. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/5/592.pdf - Similar pages

eCMAJ -- LeBlanc et al. 166 (5): 592
... other online articles - autres articles en direct. ... Research Recherche.
Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/5/592 - Similar pages
[ More results from www.cmaj.ca ]

[PDF] Policy Consequences of Direct Legislation in the States Theory ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... the effect of direct legislation. ... theoretically derived prediction of the effect
of direct legislation should address these problems directly. ...
www.iandrinstitute.org/.../ Hug%20-%20Policy%20Consequences%20of%20I&R%20in%20the%20States%20IRI.pdf - Similar pages

[DOC] Key Anti Discrimination Legislation
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... of proof applies, as well as removing a number of exceptions from the legislation. ...
courts will give any piece of Community Law with direct effect priority over ...
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/ legislation/key_legislation_1003.doc


just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 11 mins (2005-02-18 14:35:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well that\'s just gone crazy on repeating itself - my apologies - but to finish

......capable of direct application or takes direct effect.

It\'s very dangerous to think that a stock phrase is going to apply in all legal translating. It isn\'t - and this is a prime example.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 23 mins (2005-02-18 14:47:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I realy have no issue if you do not wish to continue the debate Willemina - we all have busy schedulesand it may well be getting a tad to technical to follow perhaps - but it\'s not a question of agreeing to disagree - our asker NEEDS to be clear on the point - of course rules can take immediate effect as can clauses in a contract but you are missing the issue altogether.

A rule or law has direct effect or is directly applicable when it is not necessary for the national legislature to take steps to enact it. The individual in that country can rely upon it DIRECTLY in the absence of State legislation embodying it.

Draft legislation that has not yet come into force can be described in its content as being directly applicable yet not yet be in force - so immediate is really not the term here on that point alone.

If you don\'t draw the distinction, let me know there are whole chapters of textbooks I can refer you to on the topic - it\'s a word that really does have its own place here and the two are not interchangeable in the context above.

I think

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 24 mins (2005-02-18 14:48:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

that is enough for one day though - have my own money to make..;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 29 mins (2005-02-18 17:53:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I\'m going to have one last attempt at making the distinction for here.

I agree wholeheartedly that in many cases direct and immediate can be used interchangeably. However in this context they cannot as there is a specific principle in law classified as direct effect. We cannot choose to ignore that for what seems (but isn\'t here) a synonym.

That would be like saying let\'s give the theory of relativity another name!

The reason I know this is because I\'m a lawyer like many of you have other qualifications in other fields. I don\'t know everything about the law but I\'m particularly clued up on direct effect because I\'m busy with my dissertation in EU law for my Masters and it forms a major part of my reading - so I\'m not hair splitting - I am very sure about this and wouldn\'t be defending the answer so vigorously otherwise.

Bear in mind here we are talking (under cover of correspondence) about draft legislation (in the form of a convention of the ILO). Two forms of rules are discussed in the text. One is mentioned to be directed at the legislature - that means the legislature must take steps to implement in the national framework. The second category is DIRECTLY APPLICABLE meaning IN THIS CONTEXT - not immediate, but meaning an individual can have recourse to it DIRECTLY in the absence of national legislation covering it, or in a conflict of laws situation.

That in a nutshell is what direct effect is all about - we are not talking about something coming into force, we are talking in this context about direct recourse.

I hope I\'ve made the distinction clear enough now - off to have a sundowner and enjoy a lovely Algarve evening. Have a good weekend.
Debbie
Selected response from:

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 13:11
Grading comment
Wish I could award extra points for effort! Debbie's arguments not only convinced me; they clarified exactly what's going on here to a non-legal person (who got landed with this because it was supposed to be about social security...). Thanks a lot!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +4Due to their nature, these rules are capable of direct application.
Lawyer-Linguist
4the latter rules can be introduced/applied with immediate effect
Marijke Mayer
4 -1These rules, by their nature, are suitable to have immediate effect
Willemina Hagenauw


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
These rules, by their nature, are suitable to have immediate effect


Explanation:
.. is a solution. Good luck!

Willemina

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 49 mins (2005-02-18 14:12:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think you confusing the two: \"with immediate effect\" is a standard expression in legal terminology (by the way: my husband is a lawyer and confirms this and I have used this phrase in many of my legal translations), but there is a difference between \"direct application\" and \"immediate effect\". You will find that the expression \"with direct effect\" is not used in this context or in legal speak at all.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 49 mins (2005-02-18 14:13:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The above remark was meant in response to Debbie\'s remark!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 3 mins (2005-02-18 14:27:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I may have mentioned contracts, but it can also be applied to other legal documents. Where does it say that rules cannot take immediate effect? See also the following link (hopefully this works): www.ttra.org/employment_law.htm But can we after this just agree to disagree? I haven\'t got the time to go on about this.

Willemina Hagenauw
Local time: 13:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Lawyer-Linguist: sorry but the term in law in this context is definitely "direct" - I happen to be a practising lawyer so am basing it on my education and direct experience; why quote from a contract when we are not even dealing with one?
2 hrs
  -> Where do you base this on? The standard expression in contracts etc is that something "has immediate effect". See for instance: www.swanseacityafc.co.uk/modules.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the latter rules can be introduced/applied with immediate effect


Explanation:
I think simplicity works best here.

There is obviously a legal difference of ´apples and oranges´ between ´aanwijsregels´ and ´normbepalingen´. If you use ´the latter´, which can be used so nicely in the English language, then there is less confusion as to what is really being referred to.

Subject: Letter from the Home Office in London, UK to the people ...
... Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now ... transition to a British Crown
Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect: ...
www.sunbelt-software.com/stu/ukhomeoffice.cfm


... These rules can be applied directly to entries within the directory as intended
by the standard or can be configured and maintained by editing the access ...
e-docs.bea.com/wls/docs90/secmanage/ldap.html - 42k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's

[PDF] Before the Federal Communications Commission Washington, DC 20554
Bestandsformaat: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - HTML versie
... in applying the exclusivity rules to satellite carriers and leave us with the conclusion that, in most cases, these rules can be applied directly to satellite ...
www.wagmtv.com/sat_act_provisions _3.pdf - Gelijkwaardige pagina's


Marijke Mayer
Netherlands
Local time: 14:11
Works in field
Native speaker of: Dutch
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Lawyer-Linguist: Hi Marijke - immediate effect is not at issue here - direct effect/application is - it's a particular concept pertaining to the applicability of outside (here ILO) rules, regulations, directives etc within the national context - rest is fine
17 mins
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Due to their nature, these rules are capable of direct application.


Explanation:
they lend themselves to direct application - literally

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 mins (2005-02-18 09:28:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or can be applied directly.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2005-02-18 09:38:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in other words: it is not necessary for legislation in the country in question to be enacted first incorporating these rules - they do not have to be first transposed into national legislation - the party to whom they are addressed can rely on them directly.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 37 mins (2005-02-18 14:01:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My colleague\'s link doesn\'t seem to work but there is a definte distinction in law between something taking immediate effect and being directly applicable.

I can also pick up numerous examples in English of contracts which happen to have a clause that states something takes immediate effect. It doesn\'t help however if it doesn\'t happen to be at all relevant to the point in issue.

However the context here is draft LEGISLATION in the form of a convention. It is clearly referring to the application of the various forms regulations thereunder. The first address the legislature and reeequite its intervention, the second doesn\'t and is therefore directly applicable.

I trust these clears the issue and that we are at least not even working with a contract here!



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 42 mins (2005-02-18 14:05:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

should read: and require its intervention

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

... This concept means that if an EC piece of legislation has Direct Effect then such
law in effect grants rights to individuals and those rights must be upheld by ...
www.ecic.ie/legislation/process/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislation UK | European Court of Justice and occupational ...
... of community law; and to decide on the validity and meaning of community legislation. ...
rule of law of which there are two rules; the direct effect of community ...
sharingpensions.co.uk/legislation.htm - 74k - Cached - Similar pages

Vol.15 - 3. Policy-making and legislation
... in all Member States\' 24 - ie, without any need for further legislation. ... 3.59
Regulations, Directives and Decisions are all capable of having \'direct effect\'. ...
www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/report/volume15/chapterg.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

EUR-Lex - About EU law - The ABC of Community law - THE ...
... to its perceived national interest is not given effect. ... Direct applicability, which
means that the legal acts ... they may be described as \'European legislation\'. ...
europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/about/abc/abc_20.html - 43k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Medicare legislation article 2-04.qxp
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... questions, the uncertainties surrounding this particular piece of legislation, and
the ... For qualifying amendments, the direct effect of the amendment should be ...
www.fasb.org/articles&reports/ medicare_tfr_feb_2004.pdf - Similar pages

Haven legislation: effect of legislation
Haven legislation: effect of legislation. Legislation of this kind does not necessarily
raise vast sums of revenue in the direct sense but, in an indirect sense ...
www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/ ithmanual/html/ITH1400/15_0033_ITH1463.htm - 9k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
... Effect of legislation on the use ... Data were collected through direct observation by
2 observers (TLB and CC) using a standardized data collection sheet. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/5/592.pdf - Similar pages

eCMAJ -- LeBlanc et al. 166 (5): 592
... other online articles - autres articles en direct. ... Research Recherche.
Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/5/592 - Similar pages
[ More results from www.cmaj.ca ]

[PDF] Policy Consequences of Direct Legislation in the States Theory ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... the effect of direct legislation. ... theoretically derived prediction of the effect
of direct legislation should address these problems directly. ...
www.iandrinstitute.org/.../ Hug%20-%20Policy%20Consequences%20of%20I&R%20in%20the%20States%20IRI.pdf - Similar pages

[DOC] Key Anti Discrimination Legislation
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... of proof applies, as well as removing a number of exceptions from the legislation. ...
courts will give any piece of Community Law with direct effect priority over ...
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/ legislation/key_legislation_1003.doc


just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

... This concept means that if an EC piece of legislation has Direct Effect then such
law in effect grants rights to individuals and those rights must be upheld by ...
www.ecic.ie/legislation/process/ - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Legislation UK | European Court of Justice and occupational ...
... of community law; and to decide on the validity and meaning of community legislation. ...
rule of law of which there are two rules; the direct effect of community ...
sharingpensions.co.uk/legislation.htm - 74k - Cached - Similar pages

Vol.15 - 3. Policy-making and legislation
... in all Member States\' 24 - ie, without any need for further legislation. ... 3.59
Regulations, Directives and Decisions are all capable of having \'direct effect\'. ...
www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/report/volume15/chapterg.htm - 53k - Cached - Similar pages

EUR-Lex - About EU law - The ABC of Community law - THE ...
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just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 9 mins (2005-02-18 14:33:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am not disputing that taking immediate effect is legal terminology Willemina - but quoting a \"standard\" term from a contract in the context of a convention and in this content is incorrect.

To state that direct effect or direct application is not used in \"legal speak\" (as you call it) at all is with all due respect ludicrous.

I refer you both to the following links:

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File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... questions, the uncertainties surrounding this particular piece of legislation, and
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www.fasb.org/articles&reports/ medicare_tfr_feb_2004.pdf - Similar pages

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... Effect of legislation on the use ... Data were collected through direct observation by
2 observers (TLB and CC) using a standardized data collection sheet. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/166/5/592.pdf - Similar pages

eCMAJ -- LeBlanc et al. 166 (5): 592
... other online articles - autres articles en direct. ... Research Recherche.
Effect of legislation on the use of bicycle helmets. ...
www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/166/5/592 - Similar pages
[ More results from www.cmaj.ca ]

[PDF] Policy Consequences of Direct Legislation in the States Theory ...
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of direct legislation should address these problems directly. ...
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[DOC] Key Anti Discrimination Legislation
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... of proof applies, as well as removing a number of exceptions from the legislation. ...
courts will give any piece of Community Law with direct effect priority over ...
www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/ legislation/key_legislation_1003.doc


just for starters - these deal mostly with EU directives and the like but the same principle applies here.

If read the text again you will note they are saying the first group of provisions are directed at the legislature and do not have direct application. In other words, the legislature must first enact.

The second group do.

Your husband may well be a lawyer and may well have seen the term \"with immediate effect\" in many a contract - I would be horrified if he hadn\'t - just like those of us that practise law or regualrly do legal translating have - but I reiterate in this context WHICH IS NOT A CONTRACT - the term is \"directly applicable\", CAPABLE OF DIRECT APPLICATION ot takes \"direct effect\"



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 11 mins (2005-02-18 14:35:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

well that\'s just gone crazy on repeating itself - my apologies - but to finish

......capable of direct application or takes direct effect.

It\'s very dangerous to think that a stock phrase is going to apply in all legal translating. It isn\'t - and this is a prime example.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 23 mins (2005-02-18 14:47:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I realy have no issue if you do not wish to continue the debate Willemina - we all have busy schedulesand it may well be getting a tad to technical to follow perhaps - but it\'s not a question of agreeing to disagree - our asker NEEDS to be clear on the point - of course rules can take immediate effect as can clauses in a contract but you are missing the issue altogether.

A rule or law has direct effect or is directly applicable when it is not necessary for the national legislature to take steps to enact it. The individual in that country can rely upon it DIRECTLY in the absence of State legislation embodying it.

Draft legislation that has not yet come into force can be described in its content as being directly applicable yet not yet be in force - so immediate is really not the term here on that point alone.

If you don\'t draw the distinction, let me know there are whole chapters of textbooks I can refer you to on the topic - it\'s a word that really does have its own place here and the two are not interchangeable in the context above.

I think

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs 24 mins (2005-02-18 14:48:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

that is enough for one day though - have my own money to make..;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 29 mins (2005-02-18 17:53:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I\'m going to have one last attempt at making the distinction for here.

I agree wholeheartedly that in many cases direct and immediate can be used interchangeably. However in this context they cannot as there is a specific principle in law classified as direct effect. We cannot choose to ignore that for what seems (but isn\'t here) a synonym.

That would be like saying let\'s give the theory of relativity another name!

The reason I know this is because I\'m a lawyer like many of you have other qualifications in other fields. I don\'t know everything about the law but I\'m particularly clued up on direct effect because I\'m busy with my dissertation in EU law for my Masters and it forms a major part of my reading - so I\'m not hair splitting - I am very sure about this and wouldn\'t be defending the answer so vigorously otherwise.

Bear in mind here we are talking (under cover of correspondence) about draft legislation (in the form of a convention of the ILO). Two forms of rules are discussed in the text. One is mentioned to be directed at the legislature - that means the legislature must take steps to implement in the national framework. The second category is DIRECTLY APPLICABLE meaning IN THIS CONTEXT - not immediate, but meaning an individual can have recourse to it DIRECTLY in the absence of national legislation covering it, or in a conflict of laws situation.

That in a nutshell is what direct effect is all about - we are not talking about something coming into force, we are talking in this context about direct recourse.

I hope I\'ve made the distinction clear enough now - off to have a sundowner and enjoy a lovely Algarve evening. Have a good weekend.
Debbie

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 13:11
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 128
Grading comment
Wish I could award extra points for effort! Debbie's arguments not only convinced me; they clarified exactly what's going on here to a non-legal person (who got landed with this because it was supposed to be about social security...). Thanks a lot!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxFullCircle
4 hrs
  -> tks Marion

agree  writeaway
4 hrs
  -> tks P!

agree  AllisonK
4 hrs
  -> tks Allison!

agree  Arsen Nazarian: or: "directly applicable", as mentioned above
5 hrs
  -> tks Sevan
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