12:34 Dec 4, 2011 

to have been of help Andre.

15:49 Nov 24, 2011 

that you have to be very careful when interpreting Google data. The same text may appear half a zillion times on different websites, and there are also simply poor references, typos and what not.

Nevertheless, there are also many acceptable references pointing to e.g. peer-reviewed medical journals, and books should also be regarded with increasing suspicion. These days self-publishing is on the rise, so the rigorous review process you refer to does not apply anymore to all books.

I am not really sure if I agree with you about the 'personal preference' part. If I had to translate Andre's text, my choice would depend on the rest of the document.

If the document is clearly aimed at professionals I would choose 'cervical motion tenderness' - in part because it gives 10-100 times more Google hits than the other technical terms, and in part because I think it is the better descriptive term.

If on the other hand the text is aimed at the general public (which is what I meant by the word 'popular') I would probably go for 'chandelier sign'.

In other words, I would choose J-Bieb or Pavarotti, depending on what I would think the target audience is, and not on my personal preference.

13:18 Nov 24, 2011 

As my English instructors and research professors always said, the difference between the Internet and books in print is that books usually undergo a stringent review process and are under high scrutiny by editors, review boards, publishing companies, and other professionals before being published. Plus, they MUST include references when asserting claims so that you can back-reference that material.

So, for things like this, I find it more useful to look at what "Google Books" returns (not only in terms of numbers, but the TYPES of books).

Seems to me all of the suggestions in this thread are valid translations in this day and age, and no matter which of them is used, a choice to use it will boil down to an individual preference.

If terms are "popular" we only make them more popular by re-using them in a translation, even when they refer to exactly the same thing; but what if we were to think of this in terms of music?

Justin Bieber is popular - probably more popular than Luciano Pavarotti in this day and age, but that doesn't suggest that I would necessarily give you a CD of J-Biebs over one of Pavarotti if you ask me for a CD of "popular music".

Get my drift?

09:37 Nov 24, 2011 

tool Bryan. Thanks for sharing!

01:51 Nov 24, 2011 

Here are a few n-Grams (i.e. excerpted terminology) from actual publications/books in print rather than random websites. The charts should put terms into context from a historical view and how the usage or popularity of the term has evolved over the years.

Uterine references:
http://is.gd/vnGoGM

Uterine references (excluding "uterine pain"):
http://is.gd/B9y9I5

Cervical references:
http://is.gd/a6PeZG

Cervical references - excluding "cervical pain":
http://is.gd/isL2aL

Everything in context:
http://is.gd/wWNak8

00:36 Nov 24, 2011 

First of all, I think I should apologize: no disrespect for your doctor was meant.

I spent years (as a researcher, not as a physician) in different hospitals, from UCSD Medical Center to the Mayo Clinics, and from the Academic Medical Center in Amsterdam to the Hospital La Paz in Madrid (to mention just a few).

I mingled enough with physicians to know that they have their own slang, which may vary between hospitals. In this particular case, I am not saying the term 'cervical excitation tenderness' is wrong - I just don't think it is used very often.

Regarding the neurotic patient (funny!), you can do a bit more refined Google searches.

For example, the search

"xxxx" site:.edu

will give only hits for "xxxx" on sites that have .edu in their URLs - generally US research institutions.

Doing the search

"cervical motion tenderness" site:.edu

gives me 2,000+ hits.

Repeating the search with "cervical excitation tenderness" instead of "cervical motion tenderness" gives me 0 hits.

I don't think it is very likely that in all these US research institutions there is somebody willfully creating wrong entries for Google and simultaneously removing the correct entries, but who knows?

00:36 Nov 24, 2011 

It would have been very easy to phone myriads of other 'professors' who would have told you that it is called 'cervical motion tenderness'.
You could refer to myriads of medical journals in which the term 'cervical motion tenderness' is used.
It is not laymen who write in them.

If you want to quote some authorities, don't be selective.

But why have you called an expert in the first place, why is this so important to you, while the most frequently used technical term has been offered already?
You have added nothing useful, only confusion and commotion.

And why use this 100% confidence level while you first quoted so confidently another 'expert' who apparently did not understand anything of it, just like you obviously did not?

23:53 Nov 23, 2011 

Hey Ron, do you think it's possible that one neurotic patient Googled all those times?
I don't know about Googling but in this case I think it's safe to trust the doctor specialised in the field and currently working in it.



Korte biografie:
1986: MBChB University of Pretoria
1992: MMed (O&G) University of Stellenbosch
1993: Gyneacoloog maternity Hospital Hull, UK
1994 - 1998: Gyneacoloog Kalafong Ziekenhuis, Pretoria
1998 - 2004: Prive praktijk Sandton Zuid Afrika
2004: Perinatoloog WKZ
2008: PhD Utrecht University
Aandachtsgebieden:
Foetale echografie
Prenatale diagnose

The doc does seem to have international experience.
By the way, I did say the two terms, your entry and the info I asked for, are almost the same, in no way suggesting that you were incorrect, sorry if you took it that way.
Good luck, I'm just pleased I can't get pregnant, one pain gladly missed.

23:37 Nov 23, 2011 

An accepted alternative term for 'cervical motion tenderness' is 'cervical excitation', and less so 'cervical excitation tenderness'.

A few references:
In gynecology, cervical motion tenderness or cervical excitation, is a sign found on pelvic examination suggestive of pelvic pathology. Classically, it is present in the setting of pelvic inflammatory disease (PID), ectopic pregnancy and is of some use to help differentiate PID and appendicitis.
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/cervical motion te...

cervical motion tenderness - also known as or related to cervical excitation (observable entity), ...
http://www.patient.co.uk/leaflets/cervical_motion_tenderness...

In gynecology, cervical motion tenderness or cervical excitation (chandelier sign), ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_motion_tenderness

In terms of Google hits (searches including the double quotes):

"cervical excitation tenderness" 1,200
"cervical excitation" 14,000
"cervical motion tenderness" 209,000

and, for completeness' sake:
"chandelier sign" 5,000

08:24 Nov 21, 2011 

I think 'general' refers to 'general medicine' (as opposed to specialized medicine), not to 'general translation'.
As you mention yourself, your suggestion seems to be synonymous to mine, the main difference being that one term is popular and the other one is technical.
So why don't you post your answer and let Andre decide which term suits his translation best?
He could even go for 'cervical motion tenderness (chandelier sign)' - or the other way around;)

01:21 Nov 21, 2011 

'chandelier sign' seems to be some coulourful alternative to what Ron mentioned
thank you for mentioning this as well, Bryan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cervical_motion_tenderness

00:53 Nov 21, 2011 

I would go for "chandelier sign". But it doesn't take much effort to see that as it is synonymous with what Dr. Hartong said, hence the reason I am not answering.

Go with that!