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maakbare samenleving

English translation: socially engineered society


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:maakbare samenleving
English translation:socially engineered society
Entered by: Max Nuijens, MSc
Options:
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08:51 Apr 24, 2009
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Other
Dutch term or phrase: maakbare samenleving
ER WERD jarenlang meer dan eens schmierend gesproken over het ‘achterhaalde’ idee van de zogenaamde ‘maakbare samenleving’, een term die vooral opgeld deed tijdens de hoogtijdagen van de PvdA in de jaren ‘70 van de vorige eeuw. Sociaal-democraten — toen nog ’socialisten’ — geloofden heilig dat zij de Nederlandse samenleving konden inrichten naar een sociaal model. Meer liberaal-ingestelden, die toen electoraal even het nakijken hadden, gruwden bij dit idee omdat vooral de vrijheid van het pragmatische individu achtergesteld zou worden.
sha
Local time: 09:12
socially engineered society
Explanation:
See an intersting article about this:
"The Socially Engineered Society"
http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~chiszp/pub/soceng.pdf

Another source:
"Fifty years ago, the term "social engineering" referred to government policies that forced people to live as government dictated."

"Actually, in the last two decades, social engineering in America has become the norm, not the exception. What once was hated in American is now welcomed, indeed, demanded. Social engineering was renamed; it is now called "sustainable development." Social engineering is no longer implemented by jack-booted brown-shirted SS types; it is implemented by "comprehensive plans" developed by "visioning councils" adopted by local governments to comply with state law, enacted by state legislatures to be eligible for promised federal funds."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=4288...



Selected response from:

Max Nuijens, MSc
Belarus
Local time: 10:12
Grading comment
Bedankt, hier kan ik wat mee!
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +8socially engineered society
Max Nuijens, MSc
4 +3makeable society
Jack den Haan
4the notion that changes in society can be effected by government policyxxxjarry
3 -1mould/cast
L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen


  

Answers


28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
mould/cast


Explanation:
as in casting/moulding a society

L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen
South Africa
Local time: 09:12
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Albert Arendsen: agreed
5 mins
disagree  xxxjarry: Is not what is meant by "maakbare samenleving", which is a far more complex notion. See Jack's suggested answer and mine.
14 mins
disagree  Tina Vonhof: Does not say in what kind of a mould - a society moulded how? // I was commenting specifically on this suggestion
5 hrs
  -> Hi Tina, did you not see my comment on Max suggestion?
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36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
makeable society


Explanation:
IMHO, a literal translation would work fine here. See, for example: http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPag...
"In 1919 a pioneering generation of scholars, social policy experts, and politicians designed an unprecedented international organizational framework for labour politics. The majority of the founding fathers of this new institution, the International Labour Organization (ILO), had made great strides in social thought and action before 1919. The core members all knew one another from earlier private professional and ideological networks, where they exchanged knowledge, experiences, and ideas on social policy. In this study, one key question is the extent to which prewar “epistemic communities”, such as the International Association for Labour Legislation (IALL), and political networks, such as the Second International, were a decisive factor in the institutionalization of international labour politics. In the postwar euphoria, *** the idea of a “makeable society” *** was an important catalyst behind the social engineering of the ILO architects. As a new discipline, international labour law became a useful instrument for putting social reforms into practice. This article also deals with how the utopian idea(l)s of the founding fathers – social justice and the right to decent work – were changed by diplomatic and political compromises made at the Paris Peace Conference. The article thus reflects the dual relationship between idealism and pragmatism."

Quite a few other refs on the Internet, too!


Jack den Haan
Netherlands
Local time: 09:12
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Margreet Logmans
16 mins
  -> Thanks, Margreet.
agree  Chris Hopley: the right way to go IMO
32 mins
  -> Thanks, Chris.
neutral  Tina Vonhof: But most refs are tranlations from Dutch. // In response to your comment: I think it is about rendering the content into language that is understandable and 'feels' right in the target language. If anything, put it in quotation marks plus a footnote.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Tina. Yes, but isn't translation what it was all about ;-)
agree  Michael Beijer: I think perhaps Jack's a ‘makeable’ society (in quotes), with Jarry’s explanation in parentheses somewhere would be a good translation of the term ‘maakbare samenleving’.
997 days
  -> Thanks Michael. Quite an oldie, this one...
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the notion that changes in society can be effected by government policy


Explanation:
If anyone has a more compact solution I'd love to hear about it.

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 09:12
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 85

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen: one could write a book about what it is al about. Are you suggesting that a translation for the term is what you are offering?
12 mins
  -> I am indeed suggesting that. It would fit comfortably in the translated sentence. However, see my comment: 'If anyone has a more compact solution I'd love to hear about it.'
agree  Max Nuijens, MSc: As an explanation, it is superior (and I don't think it can be compacted). It can be combined with one of the other suggestions for actual English equivalents of maakbare samenleving.
31 mins
  -> Thanks Max. I very much like your 'socially engineered society' as a more compact solution.
neutral  Chris Hopley: the term is already explained in the text, so adding a gloss is not really warranted here IMO
33 mins
  -> The purpose of offering suggested responses is not only to help the asker with a specific sentence but to build a glossary for future users.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +8
socially engineered society


Explanation:
See an intersting article about this:
"The Socially Engineered Society"
http://alumnus.caltech.edu/~chiszp/pub/soceng.pdf

Another source:
"Fifty years ago, the term "social engineering" referred to government policies that forced people to live as government dictated."

"Actually, in the last two decades, social engineering in America has become the norm, not the exception. What once was hated in American is now welcomed, indeed, demanded. Social engineering was renamed; it is now called "sustainable development." Social engineering is no longer implemented by jack-booted brown-shirted SS types; it is implemented by "comprehensive plans" developed by "visioning councils" adopted by local governments to comply with state law, enacted by state legislatures to be eligible for promised federal funds."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php/index.php?pageId=4288...





Max Nuijens, MSc
Belarus
Local time: 10:12
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Bedankt, hier kan ik wat mee!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Albert Arendsen: ah yes, social engineering is indeed quite perfect.
1 min
  -> Thanks
agree  L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen: that is what I was looking for. Bingo!
13 mins
  -> Thanks
agree  xxxjarry: That is the more compact solution I was thinking of. Well done!
17 mins
  -> Thank you Jarry, I decided to google "engineering society" after reading and reflecting on your explanation ("effected by").
agree  vic voskuil
1 hr
  -> Thanks
agree  Tina Vonhof: Beautiful.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  Jack den Haan: ... but rather tends towards tautology, I would say ;-)
7 hrs
  -> Yes it does; perhaps one could say simply "engineered society". The reason to add "socially" is the term "social engineering" which orginates from Karl Popper (I think). Being a logician, Karl would probably also frown after reading my solution. ^_^
agree  Neil Cross: I have the same reservation as Jack: the pedant in me objects to the combination of "socially" and "society". Can't think of anything better though :-) // I would leave it in, as considerations of clarity should outweigh logical exactitude :->
23 hrs
  -> Deleting "socially" from the term might help.
agree  KimvanLent
1 day1 hr
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Changes made by editors
Apr 27, 2009 - Changes made by Max Nuijens, MSc:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term => KOG term


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