English translation: chevron balise, sign or beacon
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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Tech/Engineering - Transport / Transportation / Shipping / Railway safety engineering
Dutch term or phrase:keperbaken
A railway safety signal used in the ATB-NG system (Automatische Trein Beïnvloeding -- Nieuwe Generatie), apparently meaning: "Snelheid begrenzen tot 40 km/h en afhankelijk van zicht en beremming met een zodanige snelheid verder te rijden om voor het eerstvolgende sein, dat stoppen gebiedt, te kunnen stoppen." (see http://de-proefrit.stavenryder.nl/pdf/handboeken/seinenboek2... ). Any ideas as to how to translate this into English?
I asked the organisation responsible for railway infrastructure in the NL for help and received the ff. answer:
"Een keper baken is een baken aan het spoor, zie derde onderwerp van boven: http://www.klassiekebeveiliging.nl/seinenbakens.htm.
We hebben het bij een aantal communicatiespecialisten nagevraagd en in een aantal treinwoordenboeken gekeken, maar we zijn tot de conclusie gekomen dat een keperbaken zeer waarschijnlijk niet in andere landen bestaat. We hebben bovendien twee engelstalige websites gevonden, waar gewoon het Nederlandse woord is overgenomen. Wij kunnen de term dus niet voor u vertalen.
Onderaan de pagina: http://www.eerenberg.org/trainz/en/frame.php?content=RC
Ergens boven het midden van de pagina: http://iivq.net/icu/location.php?id=9 ". In the end I used 'chevron balise' -- 'chevron' being a more or less literal translation of 'keper' -- and referred to the source term in my translation. Textpertise's answer comes closest, but actually I think the term is not really translatable. Hence the 2 points instead of 4. Thank you Textpertise, Kate, Carolyn and Bryan (in particular) for your help! 2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
If THAT is the document you are translating, then most certainly not. Beacons/balises can be, as they are in the ETCS... otherwise cab signalling wouldn't work and neither would speed control. But "keperbaken" ?? This is an anomaly specific to Dutch railways and (rather) outdated, line side fixed-signalling systems when trains were still running relatively slowly and before HSTs came into the picture.
The "keper" fishtail is only there to indicate that the actual stopping point or point of caution/danger is within shortest distance of the final marker upon which it rests. It tells the conductor to "proceed slowly with caution & prepare to stop if a sign is approaching or there is a threat of danger".
http://www.signalbox.org/ http://www.roscalen.com/signals/#links http://www.railsigns.co.uk/home.html
and various other links accessible from these pages.
I have spent as much time looking at these as I can permit myself, considering I do not have unlimited time available to research this. Suffice to say that I have not found any signs which resemble the subject signs and it is possible that they do not exist in the British or British Commonwealth railway system. For anyone with time on their hands, please feel free to search further but I suspect that there may not be an equivalent English term for the term being asked. But feel free to look for something which performs the same function if you can find it.
Stop press:
Countdown markers are illustrated on http://www.railsigns.co.uk/sect8page1/sect8page1.html
If you feel they are sufficiently similar, please use.
Thanks for your explanation, Bryan. As you say, countdown marker boards etc. are not beacons. In your opinion, could 'keperbaken' be an electronic version of these boards, e.g. an electronic beacon or "balise"?
The "bakens" to which they are referring are the group (i.e. the threesome) of marker boards. They've always been referred to as countdown marker boards, marker boards, countdown boards, and various other types of fixed, speed-reduction signs since the 1950s. They are not "beacons". A beacon as termed in English speaking railway countries (in this respect I mean the UK, US, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa) refer to something entirely different; and the word only serves to indicate part of the "function" of the boards, which is to indicate advance warning or fixed signalling, rear-of-stop, as do the electronic Advance Medium Approach light signals in Canada and other distant signal boards. In no part of the world are they referred to as "chevron" anything. Period. I realize there is an eagerness to help, but I would advise against just throwing in or making up an industry term where none exists. The "keper" appears atop of your whistle post (exhibit 312a on pg 67 section 12-2), which should be the butt of your focus, not the fact that there is a stacked V symbol on the outer or intermediate marker boards. More research needed!!!
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
10 mins confidence:
herringbone signs
Explanation: Perhaps you need to invent this term - any references in English seem to use the Dutch term 'Keperbaken' but these references themselves are from Dutch sources.
As they derive their name from herringbone patterns perhaps you could use that.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 20 mins (2010-04-26 13:52:58 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
As you suggested chevron signals might well be a good translation except for the fact that the term is also used in road signs and usually for signs in a horizontal orientation. However if the term chevron signal is not used in railway terminology to indicate sharp curves etc then I don't see why this term should not be used for this particular sign.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 21 mins (2010-04-26 13:53:23 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
It's probably a good term for US use!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 29 mins (2010-04-26 14:02:02 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Take a look at this site - something for railway geeks !
Textpertise United Kingdom Local time: 09:53 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 18
Grading comment
I asked the organisation responsible for railway infrastructure in the NL for help and received the ff. answer:
"Een keper baken is een baken aan het spoor, zie derde onderwerp van boven: http://www.klassiekebeveiliging.nl/seinenbakens.htm.
We hebben het bij een aantal communicatiespecialisten nagevraagd en in een aantal treinwoordenboeken gekeken, maar we zijn tot de conclusie gekomen dat een keperbaken zeer waarschijnlijk niet in andere landen bestaat. We hebben bovendien twee engelstalige websites gevonden, waar gewoon het Nederlandse woord is overgenomen. Wij kunnen de term dus niet voor u vertalen.
Onderaan de pagina: http://www.eerenberg.org/trainz/en/frame.php?content=RC
Ergens boven het midden van de pagina: http://iivq.net/icu/location.php?id=9 ". In the end I used 'chevron balise' -- 'chevron' being a more or less literal translation of 'keper' -- and referred to the source term in my translation. Textpertise's answer comes closest, but actually I think the term is not really translatable. Hence the 2 points instead of 4. Thank you Textpertise, Kate, Carolyn and Bryan (in particular) for your help!
Explanation: I've found it twice used on an English language site... could it be that simple, or are they also at a loss for an English translation?
Example sentence(s):
Keperbaken only exist on some single track railroads without signals for driving on the wrong side. At the end of these tracks there is a dwarf signal. This signal is preceded by keperbaken. In rare cases these keperbaken are in front of a S-sign or R-sig
Reference information: Note this reference title is not offered as a translation. I'm not quite sure yet based on the seinboek you provided whether you are attempting to go the marker board route or if you are looking for a signal as a part of the ATB-NG system that mimics the same function.
"Approach": Proceed prepared to stop at next signal. Trains exceeding 40 MPH must begin reduction to 40 MPH as soon as engine passes signal displaying approach.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 14 hrs (2010-04-27 03:33:23 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The site I provided for the last reference also indicates "Approach" signalling. I didn't think to look there.
40 km/hr = approx 25 mph, so my guess -- if you're looking for a functional translation -- is an "Approach Medium Signal Aspect" (medium = 30 mph). See description below.
The US Automatic Block Signal (ABS), i.e. one without any manual control and operated by trains passing through track circuits, shows four basic commands. The way they are shown, in other words the aspect, varies from railroad to railroad and often from division to division in a railroad. There are also variations in the meanings of signals which appear to look the same. The basic commands, however, are:
Stop, Approach, Approach Limited and Clear.
The US has the "stop and proceed" signal system seen in the UK but it is referred to as a "permissive" signal. The driver is told, "You are allowed to pass this signal after stopping but you must proceed at a speed which allows you to stop your train in half the available sighting distance." There are some stop signals at interlockings (therefore they are not ABS) where it is forbidden to pass and these are called "absolute stop" signals. They invariably show a different display to the permissive stop signal and it normally includes two red lights.
As US signals are speed limiting, a signal displaying "Approach" means the equivalent of the UK single yellow - "be prepared to stop at the next signal" but, additionally, the US rule says, "also keep your train speed down to less than 30 mi/h (often less for freight)". "Approach limited" (UK = double yellow) would mean "you should be doing 30 by the time you get to the next signal but not more than 45 mi/h now".
In the US also, there are three common terms used to instruct crews about permitted train speeds. These can be classified as "slow","medium" and "limited". Slow normally means less that 15 mi/h, medium normally means 30 and limited means 45 (40 for freight) mi/h. There is a fourth "Restricted Speed" which is 15 mi/h inside interlocking limits or 20 outside or the speed which allows you to stop within half sighting distance. It is the speed you are allowed to do if you have passed a red permissive signal.
There is a list of the common signalling rules applied to most railroads in North America at NORAC Signal Aspects. It shows each signal display and the rules appertaining to that display.
The translation workplace 
