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kids have been in

English translation: If in doubt, leave out

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08:03 Jul 6, 2003
English to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary
English term or phrase: kids have been in
I was quite idealistic about journalism and then I realised , you know I was gonna be knocking on the doors of bereaved parents whose kids have been in, and, and I, and I would have to swipe a photo from their mantle piece or something and I thought, so, I am still on hold. My journalism is still on hold, I, I literally was just putting it off.

Dead or in prison?
lim0nka
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:33
English translation:If in doubt, leave out
Explanation:
That's a rule that tends to work well...

Rather than try and guess what the heck the kids have been "in" - in prison ? in an accident ? in trouble ? in Vietnam ? - I would just skip that part, and say : "... bereaved parents, and I would have to swipe a photo of their kid /// photos of their kids from the mantlepiece..."

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Note added at 2003-07-06 11:58:03 (GMT)
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If you feel queasy about this option, maybe \"have been in some drama\".
But I\'d apply the Golden Rule...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-07 08:49:21 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

One last thing - reading the comments below, I\'m surprised that many seem to think Jackman left this \"in\" hanging there deliberately.
Doesn\'t that just simply sound to you like any normal human being trailing off while he/she is talking ?
It does to me...

What he\'s saying also seems very clear to me - he was too sensitive to do what he would need to do as a journalist, for example, steal pictures of dead kids from grief-stricken parents, to illustrate his story.
(\"Bereaved\" would indicate \"death\" to me.)

That\'s Jackman\'s argument here, but frankly, I\'m not sure journalists have to \"steal\" these pictures - I\'d say in most cases of \"bereavement\", they simply ask for them and get them. So I wouldn\'t jump on journalists, personally.
Selected response from:

uparis
Local time: 15:33
Grading comment
Thank you all!

Hirselina, thanks for the link. The text from the Internet is much more detailed than mine. Strange but true…
Jackman really made a pause after in (in my version there was a comma there) but I didn't have a video tape when I asked the question.

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5If in doubt, leave outuparis
3 +4done in?Fuad Yahya
4 +2Supplementary to the above
DGK T-I
3 +3been in an accidentLesley Clayton
4 +1context problemJ. Leo
4 +1Insolvable problem...
Christopher Crockett
4 +1have been "snookered"
Nerzh
2 +2in the paper
Mary Worby
1 +2in prisonRHELLER
2 -1where the kids lived
jerrie


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
done in?


Explanation:
Without more context, I am tempted to theorize a missing word:

". . . parents whose kids have been done in. . . "

To "do in" is to kill or ruin. To do oneself in is to commit suicide (American Heritage Dictionary).

Just theorizing.

Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 893

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: could be one of those, with the word missed out. It seems odd as it is. Unless perhaps it is a sort way of meaning 'been in' as in 'been in the paper[the journalist is writing for]' or'been in the news'. It's not clear with what we've got at this stage...
15 mins

agree  PCovs: This was also my first thought. The parents are 'bereaved' : "having lost sb, esp a relative or close friend, who has died recently" (according to Oxfords ALD). Also makes sense that he would have to pinch a photo from the mantle.
2 hrs

agree  Marie Scarano: or in trouble, in accidents, etc.
4 hrs

agree  Catherine Norton: I would suggest limOnka go back to her text to see if "done" was left out because I think this is the best analysis.
14 hrs
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
context problem


Explanation:
If 'Dead or in prison' are your two choices for the context then I'd say 'in prison'.
But perhaps 'involved' would fit too. If it's a direct quote, the 'and, and It suggests that the speaker stopped in the middle of saying 'involved'; 'kids have been in..and, and I...'

J. Leo
Local time: 15:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 51

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: quite possible....
6 mins
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
in the paper


Explanation:
Maybe refers to people who's children have been featured in the paper. Or have been 'in' somewhere, like prison, or the morgue. As Fuad says, it's impossible without a bit more context! ;-)

HTH
Mary

Mary Worby
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 164

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: Could well be those, depending on the context
4 mins

agree  Сергей Лузан: who's children have been featured in the paper or in the magazine
25 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -1
where the kids lived


Explanation:
Could the in relate to the doors?

The kids are dead, because the parents are 'bereaved', so as an investigative journalist, you have to go to the home where the kids lived, talk to the parents, swipe some photos...

I was going to be knocking on the doors (of the homes) of bereaved parents, whose kids have been in (where the kids lived)....

Just another idea.

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 773

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  uparis: Sorry, but if that's what Hugh Jackman means, it's a mighty good thing he didn't go into journalism -
1 hr

neutral  DGK T-I: unfortunately the 'in doors' idea doesn't seem to me to fit, but sadly the meanings you give to the passage are probably all too true to what the speaker is saying....
3 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
been in an accident


Explanation:
another suggestion

Lesley Clayton
France
Local time: 15:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  hirselina: Yes, very well possible
1 hr

agree  DGK T-I: also possible
2 hrs

agree  RHELLER: after viewing Hirselina's website, this is a much more viable option (as opposed to dead)
6 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
If in doubt, leave out


Explanation:
That's a rule that tends to work well...

Rather than try and guess what the heck the kids have been "in" - in prison ? in an accident ? in trouble ? in Vietnam ? - I would just skip that part, and say : "... bereaved parents, and I would have to swipe a photo of their kid /// photos of their kids from the mantlepiece..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-06 11:58:03 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you feel queasy about this option, maybe \"have been in some drama\".
But I\'d apply the Golden Rule...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-07 08:49:21 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

One last thing - reading the comments below, I\'m surprised that many seem to think Jackman left this \"in\" hanging there deliberately.
Doesn\'t that just simply sound to you like any normal human being trailing off while he/she is talking ?
It does to me...

What he\'s saying also seems very clear to me - he was too sensitive to do what he would need to do as a journalist, for example, steal pictures of dead kids from grief-stricken parents, to illustrate his story.
(\"Bereaved\" would indicate \"death\" to me.)

That\'s Jackman\'s argument here, but frankly, I\'m not sure journalists have to \"steal\" these pictures - I\'d say in most cases of \"bereavement\", they simply ask for them and get them. So I wouldn\'t jump on journalists, personally.

uparis
Local time: 15:33
Grading comment
Thank you all!

Hirselina, thanks for the link. The text from the Internet is much more detailed than mine. Strange but true…
Jackman really made a pause after in (in my version there was a comma there) but I didn't have a video tape when I asked the question.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  PCovs: If the context allows, i.e. if this is not vital, then you're right - it could be left out, and the reader could make up for him/herself why the parents are bereaved and why the journalist would want to pinch a picture from the mantle.
8 mins

agree  hirselina: It is indicated in the text that something is left out: see http://www.jackmanslanding.com/news-articles/ParkinsonInterv... (.. who’s kids had been in… and I )
1 hr

agree  DGK T-I: having seen the passage with the 'in....' marked (thanks to Hirselina:-) it makes sense to translate with the '....' included.It is quite possible that the speaker is deliberately saying 'in....' so that the hearer thinks of all the above possibilities)
2 hrs

agree  RHELLER: also a good option, with dots afterwards, explaining that text is missing
6 hrs

agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, I don't see what else to do, given the vagueness of the text as we have it.
9 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +2
in prison


Explanation:
Just to add my two cents :-)
all of the above answers are viable but the sentence itself is highly unusual.

If the prior section is referring to those who have "been in prison", then, AND ONLY THEN, would "in prison" make sense.

If that is not the case, there is a typo.

I have never seen a sentence where it reads "have been in" and then leaves the reader hanging to determine "been in" what/where????

"Swipe a photo from the mantle" implies that he is not there to practice journalism at all; rather to steal. This is not like "papparazzi" who stole photos of Princess Diana while she was on vacation.

He is ashamed of himself (and rightly so).

RHELLER
United States
Local time: 07:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1252

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: Hirselina's ref.above(otherwise apparently identical)gives the text with dots after the in 'in....'and some other places,apparently signifying speaker breaks off/leaving the meaning hanging(odd I agree)/text is deliberately summarized-H.text typo unlikely
36 mins
  -> Giuli, you are making very good sense - thanks!

agree  Karol: yap...quite agree
1 hr
  -> thanks Karol!
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
have been "snookered"


Explanation:
in a difficult and tough situation

Nerzh
Local time: 15:33
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  verbis
55 mins
  -> Thanx verbis
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Insolvable problem...


Explanation:
...given the lack of context and the possibility (probability?) of a lacuna or other corruption in the text.
Most all the possibilities so far given are *possible* --but I'd say that the only thing that is *sure* is jerrie's point about "bereaved" definitely indicating Death. Simply having a child in prison (or "in" anything else) would not be sufficient for "bereavement", which is a word with a very definite, and deadly, connotation.
Also suggestive of death is the fact that the "journalist" is expected (by his boss, apparently) to get a picture of the deceased child --by any means necessary, including theft-- surely for the story he's writing for some News Corp rag.
The fact that he discovers that he has a conscience about doing such a thing renders him unsuitable for being an employee of Mr. Murdoch.
Beyond this, I don't see what else we can say, with any degree of surety at all.
Fuad's "done in" expansion is a good suggestion and works, but "parents whose kids have been done in", while clear in meaning, is certainly awkward enough in phrasing to further disqualify the guy for journalism.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 09:33
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 124

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  DGK T-I: agree about death and the ramifications of what the speaker said he was expected to do
53 mins
  -> But not about it being insolvable? Thanks, Giuli, and I'm looking forward to seeing your solution.
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Supplementary to the above


Explanation:
Just in answer to Christopher's reply above - I entirely agree with his comment that there are various plausible answers, as above, to what 'in' means, and that it is impossible to say any one of them is "the" meaning intended because what come after is a lacuna(bit missing) :-)

Where I differ is that I now think the speaker deliberately broke off after 'in...' - since I read Hirselina's version of the asker's text (from a transcript of a chatshow interview with Michael Parkinson - see ref.below).

The important difference is the dots '....' in H's text, after 'in' and in other places, to show things are being left out.
In texts in general this could be either to show the speaker is leaving something unsaid or unfinished ('trailing off', 'leaving something in the air'), because a part was lost in transcription, or because a quote was being shortened to save space.

In this case it seems very likely that the speaker has deliberately broken off after 'in...'(rather than a corrupted transcript), because in this interview there are numerous other instances of HJ & MP deliberately leaving things unfinished ('leaving the meaning in the air') elsewhere in the interview, all represented by dots '...' in exactly the same way, and all clearly intended by these "chatshow performers" to act as a feed to the next line, have an effect, or leave an unspoken meaning in the mind of the hearer. Eg:

MP: Welcome.
HJ: Thank you.
MP: The hair.... (MP kinda stares at it and HJ laughs)
HJ: That’s exactly the look my father would have given me (puts on a distinctly unimpressed face) "Hello. Welcome home."
__________________________________
MP: And why have you grown the hair that long?
HJ: Just for fun... no, no for a movie. This actually isn’t all my hair (tugs on the hair at the back of his head).. I’ll give you the scoop...
MP: Is it not?
___________________________________
HJ: We’re doing this movie called Van Helsing – where I play a swashbuckling, turn-of-the-century sort of a action character........
MP: Right
HJ: So we just thought, “Why not?”! (flicks hair again)
____________________________________
MP: Now X-Men 2, of course, which has just been released, I mean, all over the world, 90 countries is it?
HJ: Yes, 93 countries…
MP: 20-odd languages, I mean it’s a huge franchise...
HJ: Yes
MP: But uh, the point is in that movie, I mean you are very sort of stern…. Uh, what’s the word… well it’s uh..
HJ: Tough..
MP: Tough
HJ: Cool...
MP: Yes
HJ: Sexy...
(Audience, HJ and MP laugh)
HJ: I mean, I don’t want to put words in your mouth or anything...
MP: (laughing) No, no, no, all those things..
(HJ laughs)
MP: What about the actual character itself, as I say, it’s very sinister, very cool, a killer character basically – and very stern. What does your son make of this, of you, when he sees Dad in that mode?
HJ: Well...
MP: Because, I mean, you are a very relaxed guy and a lovely sort of friendly face and from Aussie..
HJ: Yeah just.. (mock stern) just don’t piss me off, alright?
______________________________________
HJ: Until I discovered things like ethics in journalism and that was the last class I had. Ethics in Journalism – and so for 12 weeks they go through the dilemmas and so I was quite idealistic about journalism and then I realised, you know, I was going to be knocking on the doors of bereaved parents who’s kids had been in... and I would have to swipe a photo from the mantelpiece or something and I thought... so... I’m still on hold. My journalism is still on hold, I literally was just putting it off and so I took a few part-time classes and worked at a gym and at the gym I met this woman who – this isn’t a lie, it sounds like a made-up story but – I was actually joining her up and she was looking at me and she just went (draws sudden breath), like that.
______________________________________

Ideally, if it is possible in the target language, I would positively suggest that the sentence is translated with the 'in...' dots '...' included, worded in such a way to suggest in the mind of the listener as many as possible of the plausible meanings for 'nasty situations' above, without actually spelling out any of them.....and that this is the solution to the 'meaning'.

In a way, I am agreeing with with Christopher that the asker's text is corrupted, but the corruption is that '...' (original text) has been replaced by ',' (asker's text) - and in this case it makes a big difference to how it was meant, in the context of a chatshow.




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Note added at 2003-07-06 22:27:49 (GMT)
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typo.error: line3 - \'...because what comes after...\'

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Note added at 2003-07-21 14:29:26 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

The possibility of the speaker \'trailing off\' because he can\'t bear to say what would have followed, or any other reason, is meant to be included in the above, as well as the other possibility of deliberately stopping to create thought of what comes next, in minds of listeners. Either perfectly possible & unsurprizing in a chatshow interview, and in many cases the effect they will have (from a translation point of view) will merge into each other.....

I don\'t think it matters whether tabloid journalists would or wouldn\'t steal a picture from bereaved parents, the point here is that the speaker is saying that he believes he would have been expected to do such reprehensible things....


    Reference: http://www.jackmanslanding.com/news-articles/ParkinsonInterv...
DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:33
PRO pts in pair: 401

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Amy Williams: there could have been any number of facial/hand gestures there.
16 mins
  -> Thank you Amy ~

agree  MatthewS
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Matthew ~
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Voters for reclassification
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PRO / non-PRO
PRO (1): Mary Worby


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