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Non metallic atom group

English translation: see explanation below

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07:43 Sep 21, 2007
English to English translations [PRO]
Science - Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng
English term or phrase: Non metallic atom group
For a given chemical formula, I have the following explanation in my text :

A1 to A10 mutually independent mean a substituent selected from a non-metallic atom group,
R1, R2 mutually independent mean a substituent selected from a non-metallic atom group, and
R3 to R8 mutually independent mean a hydrogen atom, alkyl, an alkyl chain containing double or triple bonds, alkenyl, alkynyl, or any non-metallic atom group linked to the oxygen by a carbon atom

My question : with A1 tot A10 one can choose a substituant among a group of non metallic atoms OR is it a "non metallic atom GROUP" and not an atom to be chosen from a group? For R3 tot R8 you have : "non metallic atom GROUP linked". So the group is linked and not an atom from the group.

Anyone who could help me with this… Thanks in advance
KadansCom
Local time: 11:43
English translation:see explanation below
Explanation:
Having seen the structure this is how I interpet what the author is trying to say. First of all, substituents A1 to A10 can only be H or a halogen (F, Cl, Br, I) if they are a single atom otherwise the aromaticity of the rings would be lost, so I think the author simply wants to say a substituent that does not contain a metal (this would also include any of the groups listed for R3 to R8). The same explanation also holds for the other substituents (R1 to R8). For R3 to R8 the atom bound to the O must be a carbon and the subsequent atoms can than be any non-metal.

Note that it is highly unlikely, if not impossible, that groups A1 to A10 are all different. Synthesis of such a molecule would be immensely time-consuming and incredibly difficult. I suspect that the groups on the left-hand side of the molecule are the same as on the right-hand side, i.e. A5 and A10 are the same, as are A7 and A8, A6 and A9 etc. This would also apply to R3 to R8 (R4 and R5 are the same, etc.)

The abbreviation M is usually reserved for a metal, therefore I would suggest to the author that he replace M1 and M2 by R9 and R10 (or A11 and A12).

In summary, these phrases should read:

A1 to A10 represent/are substituents (atoms or groups) that do not contain a metal.

R1 and R2 represent/are substituents (atoms or groups) that do not contain a metal.

R3 to R8 can be either a hydrogen atom or an alkyl group, an alkyl chain containing double or triple bonds, an alkenyl or alkynyl group, or any non-metal linked to the oxygen by a carbon atom.

I hope this helps to clear things up a bit.

Andy
Selected response from:

Dr. Andrew Frankland
Spain
Local time: 11:43
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for the very clear answer!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4see explanation below
Dr. Andrew Frankland
4Any atom from the groupkmtext
2I also think it is simply to be said a substituent that does not contain a metalMARISA MORO
2an atom selected from a groupBusterK


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
non metallic atom group
an atom selected from a group


Explanation:
that's how I understand the two first but the last one is puzzling. I would tend to say that the last one isn't correctly worded and should also be one from a group. I am not sure it makes sense to have letters for atoms or clearly identified groups (alkenyl...) and then add a group not so defined...

BusterK
Local time: 11:43
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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18 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
non metallic atom group
Any atom from the group


Explanation:
A1-A10 means any atom from the group of non-metallic elements.
With R3 to R8, it means any atom or group of atoms where a carbon atom forms a bridge between them and the oxygen atom, an example being CH3OH, where you have three hydrogen atoms linked to an oxygen atom by a carbon atom, the fourth hydrogren atom being linked directly to the oxygen atom. (I would have used a subscript for the 3, but that doesn't come out properly here.)

kmtext
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GaelicGaelic
PRO pts in category: 4
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
non metallic atom group
see explanation below


Explanation:
Having seen the structure this is how I interpet what the author is trying to say. First of all, substituents A1 to A10 can only be H or a halogen (F, Cl, Br, I) if they are a single atom otherwise the aromaticity of the rings would be lost, so I think the author simply wants to say a substituent that does not contain a metal (this would also include any of the groups listed for R3 to R8). The same explanation also holds for the other substituents (R1 to R8). For R3 to R8 the atom bound to the O must be a carbon and the subsequent atoms can than be any non-metal.

Note that it is highly unlikely, if not impossible, that groups A1 to A10 are all different. Synthesis of such a molecule would be immensely time-consuming and incredibly difficult. I suspect that the groups on the left-hand side of the molecule are the same as on the right-hand side, i.e. A5 and A10 are the same, as are A7 and A8, A6 and A9 etc. This would also apply to R3 to R8 (R4 and R5 are the same, etc.)

The abbreviation M is usually reserved for a metal, therefore I would suggest to the author that he replace M1 and M2 by R9 and R10 (or A11 and A12).

In summary, these phrases should read:

A1 to A10 represent/are substituents (atoms or groups) that do not contain a metal.

R1 and R2 represent/are substituents (atoms or groups) that do not contain a metal.

R3 to R8 can be either a hydrogen atom or an alkyl group, an alkyl chain containing double or triple bonds, an alkenyl or alkynyl group, or any non-metal linked to the oxygen by a carbon atom.

I hope this helps to clear things up a bit.

Andy

Dr. Andrew Frankland
Spain
Local time: 11:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 11
Grading comment
Thanks a lot for the very clear answer!
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21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
non metallic atom group
I also think it is simply to be said a substituent that does not contain a metal


Explanation:
I just agree with Dr. Andrew Frankland´s clarification. He made it easy to understand. It easily shows he is a specialist in the area. I agree with him


MARISA MORO
Argentina
Local time: 06:43
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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