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opposite of funicular

English translation: non-funicular, not funicular etc.

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11:54 Dec 8, 2004
English to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Construction / Civil Engineering / Structural analysis
English term or phrase: opposite of funicular
Dear Proz,

I am translating a paper from Spanish on structural analysis involved with funiculars and catenaries. An important part of this revolves around, literally "anti-funiclar" or "non-funicular" nets/networks. The matter is that I just cannot seem to find an adequate opposite for "funicular". Here is an excerpt with the unstranslated term within context:



The lack of references found (which include a couple in Kudoz), make me doubt the adequacy of the terms "non-funicular" and "antifunicular" and I am under the impression that the English equivalent might be a completely unrelated word.

I have copied and pasted some simple definitions from the web hoping they may be of help.




Thank you for your help and my apologies for the extended reading.

Álvaro :O) :O)
moken
Local time: 07:34
English translation:non-funicular, not funicular etc.
Explanation:
The term you need is not an opposite term but a word which explains that your object is not funicular. Therefore, you may use "not funicular" if this appears rarely and even "non-funicular" if you DEFINE this concept somewhere within the paper's translation.
Please see:
Structural Idealisation: a PDF doc at http://emulava.fbe.unsw.edu.au:8080/ downloads/pdf/struct-ideal.pdf
also
shapingstructures.com/overview.html
courses.arch.hku.hk/bss/01-02/students/ IBM%20PAVILION%20web%20page/struc01.htm
Also some arguing on ProZ :)
muybueno.proz.com/kudoz/193747 (non-funicular/unbalanced loading, Nikki Graham)
and
www.brantacan.co.uk/keystones.htm
Now: Funicular Compression Structures
... A loading that does not corrpespond to the arch's funicular profile will be called a non-funicular loading or unbalanced loading. ...
www.arch.virginia.edu/~km6e/ arch324/content/lectures/lec-23/pres.html

Arch 324/524 Course Description ... Funicular compression structures. Three-hinged arches and 19th Century methods of analysis. Arch structures subjected to non-funicular loadings. ...
urban.arch.virginia.edu/~km6e/ arch324/content/course-desc.html

I am not saying about another way i.e., the applying if the term "non-catenary" (more close to purely mathematical terms): please see
_____ and David F. Anderson, "Non-catenary Factorial Domains", Communications in Algebra, Vol. 17, No. ...
>>>
www.math.utk.edu/~mulay/cv.html

and

www.ams.org/proc/1999-127-12/ S0002-9939-99-04962-X/home.html
... Finally, we provide several examples to explain our assumptions as well as an example of a noncatenary, equidimensional local domain R with prime ideal p such ...
www.math.utah.edu/~sather/mdium.ps (fine is in PostScript format which can be converted to a PDF)
Non-catenary pseudo-geometric normal rings. ...
www.math.purdue.edu/~heinzer/preprints/cat26.ps
In Modern Algebra, these terms are usually related to specific rings with some additional properties (see also AMS site and the list of math topics there).
Conclusions: in mechanical and other papers they would use the term "non-funicular", while in math the term "noncatenary" or "non-catenary" is preferible for description of specific domains and sets with algebraic structures.
Yours,
Tagir.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 19 mins (2004-12-09 13:13:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A small note about Google results:): Typing \"Cetificate\" brings you some 11+ thousand links but all of them simply contain this mistyped word:) I think this is due to the fact that proper typing \"Certificate\" results in more than 44 million links... Ratio is funny!
Yours
T.
Selected response from:

ttagir
Local time: 09:34
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2non-funicular, not funicular etc.
ttagir
4antifunicular
Richard Benham
3check out 'inverted catenary'
Parrot
3inverted funicular
jccantrell


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
antifunicular


Explanation:
I don't know what more you could want. There are only 62 Google hits, but at least a handful of them are entirely relevant and credible. So what's your problem? You don't think there's some magic minimum number of Googlies before you can use a term, do you?

Richard Benham
France
Local time: 08:34
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
check out 'inverted catenary'


Explanation:
unless there is a differentiation in your text between what is catenary and what is funicular - catenary curves are generally considered synonymous to funicular curves. (This was supposed to be Gaudi's structural plan for the Sagrada Familia.)

Parrot
Spain
Local time: 08:34
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Benham: I think it's a bit more complicated. I think the idea is that the *compressive* forces are all longitudinal. I'll look at it, though.//Looks like you've got something, but my understanding is that a catenary is only one example of a funicluar curve.
59 mins
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
inverted funicular


Explanation:
While this is similar to the other answer, Heyman used to put catenaries onto pictures of arches. When they coincided, the structures were sound. As the arches went low-high-low and catenaries (with rope) went high-low-high, you had to invert one to match it to the other.

This link states:
"By natural law, an inverted funicular tension geometry will automatically produce a pure funiclar compression shell geometry."

They are talking of concrete shells in the paper.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 48 mins (2004-12-08 15:42:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Also see this for some on Heyman

http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1169.htm


    Reference: http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/architecture/cast/pdf_down...
jccantrell
United States
Local time: 23:34
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
non-funicular, not funicular etc.


Explanation:
The term you need is not an opposite term but a word which explains that your object is not funicular. Therefore, you may use "not funicular" if this appears rarely and even "non-funicular" if you DEFINE this concept somewhere within the paper's translation.
Please see:
Structural Idealisation: a PDF doc at http://emulava.fbe.unsw.edu.au:8080/ downloads/pdf/struct-ideal.pdf
also
shapingstructures.com/overview.html
courses.arch.hku.hk/bss/01-02/students/ IBM%20PAVILION%20web%20page/struc01.htm
Also some arguing on ProZ :)
muybueno.proz.com/kudoz/193747 (non-funicular/unbalanced loading, Nikki Graham)
and
www.brantacan.co.uk/keystones.htm
Now: Funicular Compression Structures
... A loading that does not corrpespond to the arch's funicular profile will be called a non-funicular loading or unbalanced loading. ...
www.arch.virginia.edu/~km6e/ arch324/content/lectures/lec-23/pres.html

Arch 324/524 Course Description ... Funicular compression structures. Three-hinged arches and 19th Century methods of analysis. Arch structures subjected to non-funicular loadings. ...
urban.arch.virginia.edu/~km6e/ arch324/content/course-desc.html

I am not saying about another way i.e., the applying if the term "non-catenary" (more close to purely mathematical terms): please see
_____ and David F. Anderson, "Non-catenary Factorial Domains", Communications in Algebra, Vol. 17, No. ...
>>>
www.math.utk.edu/~mulay/cv.html

and

www.ams.org/proc/1999-127-12/ S0002-9939-99-04962-X/home.html
... Finally, we provide several examples to explain our assumptions as well as an example of a noncatenary, equidimensional local domain R with prime ideal p such ...
www.math.utah.edu/~sather/mdium.ps (fine is in PostScript format which can be converted to a PDF)
Non-catenary pseudo-geometric normal rings. ...
www.math.purdue.edu/~heinzer/preprints/cat26.ps
In Modern Algebra, these terms are usually related to specific rings with some additional properties (see also AMS site and the list of math topics there).
Conclusions: in mechanical and other papers they would use the term "non-funicular", while in math the term "noncatenary" or "non-catenary" is preferible for description of specific domains and sets with algebraic structures.
Yours,
Tagir.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 19 mins (2004-12-09 13:13:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A small note about Google results:): Typing \"Cetificate\" brings you some 11+ thousand links but all of them simply contain this mistyped word:) I think this is due to the fact that proper typing \"Certificate\" results in more than 44 million links... Ratio is funny!
Yours
T.

ttagir
Local time: 09:34
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian, Native in TatarTatar
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Angela Dickson: comprehensive. Agree that Google hits mean little if they are all bad translations.
242 days

agree  Robert Donahue
243 days
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