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a 19th century military rank

English translation: General of Artillery

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13:13 Mar 8, 2002
English to English translations [PRO]
History / history
English term or phrase: a 19th century military rank
I am looking for a term that expresses a 19th c. military rank: a type of General in the infantry, the infantry equivalent of the Cavalry General. It is lower than a field marshal.

This was the rank of Theodor Baillet de Latour Austrian Minister of War in 1849.

Thank you.
Palko Agi
Local time: 14:19
English translation:General of Artillery
Explanation:
Feldmarshall FM A rank that was rare before 1917.
Generaloberst GO A rank not known in the British Army, and rare in the Austro-Hungarian Army until late in the war. Prior to that normally held by the Generalstabschef.
General der Infanterie GdI These three ranks equate to that of General and were held by senior officers of the arm indicated, normally as army commanders.
General der Kavallerie GdK
Feldzeugmeister (General of Artillery) FZM
Feldmarshalleutnant FML A rank normally held by corps commanders.
Generalmajor GM A rank held by divisional commanders, and sometimes by brigade commanders.

see: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/dixnut/dn2.htm
Selected response from:

Klaus Dorn
Local time: 15:19
Grading comment
Thank you all for your help, I have learnt a lot.
Actually, since then I found an explanation in a Hungarian dictionary whish says that "táborszernagy" was a type of General who used to be a "technical officer" before rising to the rank of General. Does it make any sense?

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1FeldzeugmeisterKlaus Dorn
5Colonel-General
Olga Simon
4Feldzeugmeister (General of Ordnance/Artillery)
Natalia Bearden
4General, Lieutenant General, Major General
Karina Pelech
4General of ArtilleryKlaus Dorn
4General
Steven Geller
4Colonel
swisstell


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Colonel


Explanation:
was his highest rank. He was murdered in 1848 when he was Minister of War in Austria (you're off by 1 year with 1949).
Ref. his biography

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Note added at 2002-03-08 14:16:24 (GMT)
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sorry 1849

swisstell
Italy
Local time: 14:19
Native speaker of: German

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Klaus Dorn: and someone here's off with 100 years...
19 mins
  -> thanks. just a typo ...
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23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
General


Explanation:
He had the rank of General

You should refer to him either as General of as Minister -- he was Minister of War when he was killed.

[PDF] Diversité et égalité pour l´Europe
As a result of this assault the Minister Theodor Baillet von Latour was killed.

http://www.google.fr/search?q=cache:hjHrV6-jz0IC:www.ohiou.e...

Ortsinformationen aus einem Titel - [ Traduire cette page ]
... 30.4.1848 Regierungsumbildung (A) General Theodor Graf <=== RANK OF GENERAL

Baillet de Latour übernimmt das Kriegsministerium. ...
www.uni-freiburg.de/histsem/badrev/lit-ort/7163 3725.htm

Steven Geller
Local time: 14:19
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Feldzeugmeister


Explanation:
I know you want a translation into English, well, here's the correct German term, maybe others can help, I'm looking myself and should soon find something useful.

"Eine harmlose Exhorte an die Plenarversammlung des Katholiken-Vereins am 1. August, ebd. 93-96; Politische Passionspredigten nebst der Rede zum Seelenamte weil. k.k. Feldzeugmeisters Grafen Baillet de Latour"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 13:48:45 (GMT)
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maybe it doesn\'t get translated: Details the history of Feldzeugmeister Potiorek (source: http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/sources.htm)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-08 13:53:12 (GMT)
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Perhaps his Majesty\'s remarkablest transaction, here on the Rhine, was this concerning Stanislaus. For Seckendorf the Feldzeugmeister was here also, on military function, not forgetful of the Diplomacies; who busily assailed his Majesty, on the Kaiser\'s part, in the same direction: \"Give up Stanislaus, your Majesty! (source: http://associate.com/gutenberg/etext00/History_of_Friedrich_...

Klaus Dorn
Local time: 15:19
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Chris Rowson
5 mins
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
General of Artillery


Explanation:
Feldmarshall FM A rank that was rare before 1917.
Generaloberst GO A rank not known in the British Army, and rare in the Austro-Hungarian Army until late in the war. Prior to that normally held by the Generalstabschef.
General der Infanterie GdI These three ranks equate to that of General and were held by senior officers of the arm indicated, normally as army commanders.
General der Kavallerie GdK
Feldzeugmeister (General of Artillery) FZM
Feldmarshalleutnant FML A rank normally held by corps commanders.
Generalmajor GM A rank held by divisional commanders, and sometimes by brigade commanders.

see: http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/dixnut/dn2.htm

Klaus Dorn
Local time: 15:19
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you all for your help, I have learnt a lot.
Actually, since then I found an explanation in a Hungarian dictionary whish says that "táborszernagy" was a type of General who used to be a "technical officer" before rising to the rank of General. Does it make any sense?
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Colonel-General


Explanation:
First of all this was Latour's rank.

Secondly - this is the secondrank that comes after Filed Marshal which is the highest rank possible in Imperial army (corresponds to the Grand Admiral in Imperial Navy).

Fleet Admiral= High Admiral= Senior Admiral in Imperial Navy.

Colonel-General = corresponding rank in Imperial Army.

See table of military ranks at:

General Information: Imperial Military Ranks
... as adjutants to lower-ranking admirals, or commanding officers ... Ranks Table (Galactic
Empire). ... or Space Admiral), Field Marshal, Flag officer, four ...

www.logh.net/geranks.htm





    Reference: http://www.logh.net/geranks.htm
Olga Simon
Hungary
Local time: 14:19
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Feldzeugmeister (General of Ordnance/Artillery)


Explanation:
Basically, I agree with Klaus, and since I apparently happened to repeat his path of research, I am not going to quote the part stating Theodor Baillet de Latour held a rank of Feldzeugmeister.

The rank of a General in Austrria-Hungary was subdivided into that of Infantry, Cavalry, and Artillery (technical branches) (descending order of seniority):

*) Der "normale" General in der K.u.k. Armee wurde mit dem Zusatz der Waffengattung seiner ursprünglichen Ausbildung bezeichnet. Dies waren die Infanterie (GdI), die Kavallerie (GdK) und Artillerie bzw. techn. Waffengattungen (FZM = Feldzeugmeister).
http://land.heim.at/waldviertel/240124/1.Weltkrieg/Generale/...

The ranking was as follows:

*) Abbreviations for Commanders' ranks (in Austria-Hungary):
FM Feldmarschall
GO Generaloberst
GdI General der Infanterie
GdK General der Kavallerie
FZM **Feldzeugmeister**
FML Feldmarschalleutnant
Glt Generalleutnant
GM Generalmajor
Obst Oberst
Hpt Hauptmann

In English texts the rank does not normally get translated:

*) Advanced to the rank of **Feldzeugmeister** on the 27th November 1859 he was appointed Chief of the General Quartermaster Staff on the 31st of January 1860 followed by the Governorship of Hungary in April.
http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/biog/benedek.htm

**) promoted colonel in 1768
promoted general-major in 1789
Promoted feldmarschall-lieutenant, commander of the Order of Maria Theresa
Given command in Italy with rank of Feldzeugmeister in 1796.
http://www.historydata.com/biographies/beaulieu.html

The meaning is indeed “General of Artillery”:

*) Feldzeugmeister (FZM) (General of Artillery)
http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/dixnut/dn2.htm

**) Besides the Kaiser, the most senior rank held by a serving officer prior to the outbreak of the war had been that of General der Infanterie/Kavallerie or **Feldzeugmeister** in the case of generals from the **artillery branch**.
http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/marshals.htm

As an optional (and imho a better, since it has a wider meaning than “artillery”) translation (which I would tend to trust since the author is apparently an educated native speaker) – “General of Ordnance”:

Alexander Archilovich was appointed head of the Pushkar. skii Prikaz or Artillery Department, and made **general of ordnance** (Feldzeugmeister) of the Russian army
(excerpt from "The Last years of the Georgian Monarchy, 1658-1832" by David Marshall Lang, University of London)
http://rustaveli.tripod.com/sakartvelo/history/17century.htm...

However, I would stick to the commonly used “Feldzeugmeister” (m.b. you would want to add an explanation as a footnote)

PS: I would recommend that you have a look at the following link: “THE AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN ARMY 1914-18” http://www.kitzbuhel.demon.co.uk/austamps/dixnut/dn2.htm. Piles of useful information you might find interesting!

Natalia Bearden
Local time: 05:19
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3 days8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
General, Lieutenant General, Major General


Explanation:
The top rankings after a Field marshal are:
General
Lieutenant General
Major General
Brigadier ('Brigadier General' in US)
Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
I believe Theodore Baillet was the equivalent of a general at the height of his career, but most of his army life he spent as a Lieutenant General and Major General

Karina Pelech
Argentina
Local time: 09:19
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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