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Engineers Forum

English translation: formally correct

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Engineers Forum
English translation:formally correct
Entered by: Fuad Yahya
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

11:47 Feb 20, 2006
English to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics / Grammar/spelling/usage
English term or phrase: Engineers Forum
Let us say, this is a forum meant for engineers. Would the correct phrase for such a forum be

Engineers Forum
Engineer's Forum (with an apostrophe after engineer), or
Engineers' Forum (with an apostrophe after engineers)
Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 14:52
formally correct
Explanation:
Leaving aside the issues of nuance and personal preference, all three options are formally correct. In particular "engineers forum" and "translators workplace" are formally correct.

The word "forum" is your main noun. You can modify it with a possessive:

- the engineer's forum (the singular "engineer" can be understood to mean the generic engineer, not one particular engineer); or

- the engineers' forum (the forum being attributed to engineers at large).

Or you can modify the noun "forum" with a noun-modifier. Noun-modifiers are very commonly used in English:

health insurance, tax evasion, biology professor, computer virus, birth control, diet pills, etc.

The general rule, typically taught with unwarranted rigidity to grade-school students, is that noun-modifiers are usually used in the singular form, even if the reference is clearly to a plurality:

a four-star general, a five-star hotel, a seven-course dinner, etc.

However, there are noted examples:

arms control, sales division, weapons violations charges, etc.

These examples are from the following page:

http://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/link/dict/section-AN.html

As I said, I do not wish to cast a vote on a "preferred" choice or to address the specific nuances of each choice, but to specifically address the formal correctness of these choices, and in particular to correct the notion that "Translators Workplace" is incorrect.
Selected response from:

Fuad Yahya
Grading comment
Thank you very much.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +11Engineers' forum
Attila Piróth
4 +4engineers' forum
Dave Calderhead
5 +2formally correctFuad Yahya
5 +1the third one: Engineers' Forum
Miroslawa Jodlowiec
4 +1all three are possible!!
William [Bill] Gray
4 +1engineers forum OR engineers' forumKen Cox
4 +1Engineer's Forum / Engineers' Forumflipendo
4The second oneAnna Maria Augustine at proZ.com


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
engineers forum
The second one


Explanation:
*

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2006-02-20 11:50:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or you can simply say: a forum for engineers which is less complicated.

Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com
France
Local time: 11:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 28
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
engineers forum
Engineer's Forum / Engineers' Forum


Explanation:
I would go for these two alternatives. If you were to emphasize the Engineer as the generic term, I believe this is what you should use: the Engineer's Forum. Otherwise, both are fine.

flipendo
Local time: 12:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Krisztina Lelik
40 mins
  -> Thanks!
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +11
engineers forum
Engineers' forum


Explanation:
This is the straightforward solution - although you will often find the apostrophe omitted, like in ProZ - The Translators Workplace (see the top of this page).

Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 11:22
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dave Calderhead
2 mins

agree  Jack Doughty: Yes. ProZ is not setting a good example here.
3 mins

agree  Alison Jenner
5 mins

agree  Oana Apetrei
10 mins

agree  Stefanie Sendelbach
24 mins

agree  RHELLER: this is the standard correct response :-)
3 hrs

agree  xxxAlfa Trans
6 hrs

agree  conejo: This is right. As an editor I often feel the same way as the Asker... thinking am I missing something here?
6 hrs

agree  MultiPro
10 hrs

agree  ugrankar
12 hrs

agree  Cristina Chaplin
2 days7 hrs
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
engineers forum
engineers' forum


Explanation:
because it is a forum for more than one engineer, hence the plural possessive

Dave Calderhead
Netherlands
Local time: 11:22
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Oana Apetrei
9 mins
  -> Thanks, Oana (:-{)>

agree  RHELLER: quite right, sir :-)
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Rita (:-{)> - or should I say "Thank you Ma'am"?

agree  MultiPro
10 hrs
  -> Thanks (:-{)>

agree  Maria Karra
13 hrs
  -> Thanks, Maria (:-{)>
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
engineers forum
the third one: Engineers' Forum


Explanation:
for sure

Miroslawa Jodlowiec
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in PolishPolish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Oana Apetrei
7 mins
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
engineers forum
engineers forum OR engineers' forum


Explanation:
If you use the possessive, IMO it should be engineers' because it is for engineers collectively.
However, a google scan using 'engineers forum' and similar terms (such as 'artists forum', 'users forum', etc.) indicates the possisive and non-possessive forms are both common.

You could also call it 'engineering forum' if that suits the context.

Ken Cox
Local time: 11:22
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 47

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  RHELLER: you should know :-) but Engineering Forum solves the problem as does Proz Translation Workplace
3 hrs
  -> Thanks -- good suggestions
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
engineers forum
all three are possible!!


Explanation:
I apologise for adding yet another answer, but it's the only way I can get enough space to write what I wish to say.

If you are thinking of engineers as a profession ("The Engineer") then you may wish to write (especially, but not exclusively, if you are referring to their monthly journal/magazine):
THE ENGINEER'S FORUM
http://bsnldeforum.tripod.com/

If you are thinking of all engineers from an area who are coming to a conference/forum, you may write:
THE ENGINEERS' FORUM
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/forum/about.htm

If you are thinking purely generically, as with The Translators Workplace (mentioned by another answerer), you may dispense with the apostrophe altogether, because here it is a forum FOR engineers and not possessed by them, you may write:
THE ENGINEERS FORUM
http://www.asme.org/communities/EarlyCareer/Young_Engineers_...


In other words, the eventual usage will depend on the context, which we do not have here. You may choose yourself from the proffered alternatives.

Hope this helps.

William [Bill] Gray
Norway
Local time: 11:22
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maria Karra
13 hrs
  -> Thank you, Maria
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
engineers forum
formally correct


Explanation:
Leaving aside the issues of nuance and personal preference, all three options are formally correct. In particular "engineers forum" and "translators workplace" are formally correct.

The word "forum" is your main noun. You can modify it with a possessive:

- the engineer's forum (the singular "engineer" can be understood to mean the generic engineer, not one particular engineer); or

- the engineers' forum (the forum being attributed to engineers at large).

Or you can modify the noun "forum" with a noun-modifier. Noun-modifiers are very commonly used in English:

health insurance, tax evasion, biology professor, computer virus, birth control, diet pills, etc.

The general rule, typically taught with unwarranted rigidity to grade-school students, is that noun-modifiers are usually used in the singular form, even if the reference is clearly to a plurality:

a four-star general, a five-star hotel, a seven-course dinner, etc.

However, there are noted examples:

arms control, sales division, weapons violations charges, etc.

These examples are from the following page:

http://www.link.cs.cmu.edu/link/dict/section-AN.html

As I said, I do not wish to cast a vote on a "preferred" choice or to address the specific nuances of each choice, but to specifically address the formal correctness of these choices, and in particular to correct the notion that "Translators Workplace" is incorrect.

Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36
Grading comment
Thank you very much.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michael Barnett: Wow.
4 hrs

agree  Heidi C: your explanation is clear and your examples speak for themselves!!!
5 hrs
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Voters for reclassification
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PRO / non-PRO
Non-PRO (1): Oana Apetrei


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