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English translation: Punctuation etc

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18:13 Jun 4, 2002
English to English translations [Non-PRO]
English term or phrase: sentence
Several authors believe that the end of the Thirty-Year war leading to the Westphalia Peace in 1648 has a special significance since it established the principle that European states should survive based on tolerance and coexistence — hence the concept of international society.

This sentence was given to me and my question is if "leading" is correct here (or if there is any better suggestion).

(P.S: the Westphalia Peace was signed after the war)

Thanks in advance.
Carol
English translation:Punctuation etc
Explanation:
'Leading' is fine, but I believe you should add several commas and rewrite it a little. A sentence this long, and with so many clauses, cannot, I think, be read and understood easily 'in one fell swoop'. You may want to change the following, depending how you undertand the logic (and no punctuation, and/or changing the punctuation, does affect the logic - that's why it's important):

Several authors believe that the end of the Thirty-Year war, leading to the Peace of Westphalia [that's how I've always seen it, and that's how Peace of ... is usually given in BE] in 1648, has ['a' is unnecessary] special significance, since it established the principle that European states should survive on the basis of tolerance and coexistence - [or semi-colon] hence the concept of international society.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-04 18:51:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1. ... depending ON how you understand the logic ... :-)

2. Berni is right. How about: Thirty-Year war, broguth about by the Peace of Wesphalia ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-04 18:55:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry:
... Thirty-Year war, brought about by the Peace of Wesphalia ...

Selected response from:

John Kinory
Local time: 17:07
Grading comment
Your answer was really helpful! It even called my attention to some points that I had not given much attention, such as "Peace of Westphalia," instead of "Westphalia Peace." Thanks very much.
Actually, all answers were helpful, and I wish I could grade more than one. Berni, thanks a lot for your answer as well. Thanks everyone.
I learned a lot.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2The sentence is wrong
Monica Colangelo
4 +2Punctuation etcJohn Kinory
4 +1sounds fine!
Arthur Borges
4I think it´s correct.Chris Rowson
3 +1See your point...
Berni Armstrong
4your sentence is perfectly all right
Ellemiek Drucker
4resulting inmarycb


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sounds fine!


Explanation:
Without knowing the details of the end of that war, but knowing historians, there may be a nuance here to suggest that it wasn't the product of a straightforward cause/effect relationship between the war and treaty.
Or dust off your history books and change it to "ending with" or something of the like.

Arthur Borges
China
Local time: 00:07
PRO pts in pair: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marta Ruiz
11 mins
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
your sentence is perfectly all right


Explanation:
Hi Carol,

Your sentence is fine as it is.

HTH
Ellemiek

Ellemiek Drucker
Local time: 17:07
Native speaker of: Dutch
PRO pts in pair: 3
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
resulting in


Explanation:
I have misgivings about "resulting in" because the text talks about "the end" of the Thirty Years War. For me, the war would result in something and not the end of it. It might read better if you were to omit "the end" - in which case, "leading" would sound ok too.

I think you have the same problem with it as I do.

marycb
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
See your point...


Explanation:
Normally it is treaties that lead to the end of wars - not the reverse.

"An armistice was signed, leading to the end of the war" would sound more logical.

If you had to rewrite this, I would do it as follows:

"Several authors believe that the Thirty-Year war, which ended with the signing of the Westphalia Peace Accord in 1648, has a special significance since it established the principle that European states should be based on tolerance and coexistence — leading eventually to the concept of the international society"

Note THE article for "international society" which cannot stand alone.
Eventually was added because the process was a long one.

All the best with it,
Berni

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-04 18:45:34 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If indeed the war ended first then the agreement was signed I would prefer \"followed by\" to \"leading\" in the original sentence.

Berni Armstrong
Local time: 18:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Antonio Camangi: I fully agree
12 hrs
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Punctuation etc


Explanation:
'Leading' is fine, but I believe you should add several commas and rewrite it a little. A sentence this long, and with so many clauses, cannot, I think, be read and understood easily 'in one fell swoop'. You may want to change the following, depending how you undertand the logic (and no punctuation, and/or changing the punctuation, does affect the logic - that's why it's important):

Several authors believe that the end of the Thirty-Year war, leading to the Peace of Westphalia [that's how I've always seen it, and that's how Peace of ... is usually given in BE] in 1648, has ['a' is unnecessary] special significance, since it established the principle that European states should survive on the basis of tolerance and coexistence - [or semi-colon] hence the concept of international society.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-04 18:51:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1. ... depending ON how you understand the logic ... :-)

2. Berni is right. How about: Thirty-Year war, broguth about by the Peace of Wesphalia ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-04 18:55:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry:
... Thirty-Year war, brought about by the Peace of Wesphalia ...



John Kinory
Local time: 17:07
PRO pts in pair: 48
Grading comment
Your answer was really helpful! It even called my attention to some points that I had not given much attention, such as "Peace of Westphalia," instead of "Westphalia Peace." Thanks very much.
Actually, all answers were helpful, and I wish I could grade more than one. Berni, thanks a lot for your answer as well. Thanks everyone.
I learned a lot.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Fuad Yahya: You nailed it!
11 mins
  -> Thanks :-)

agree  AhmedAMS
18 days
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I think it´s correct.


Explanation:
The Thirty Years War was not one war but many, and the Peace of Westphalia was not one peace treaty but many.

The fighting had been particularly senseless for quite some time, and really everybody was heartily sick of it and it was pretty much over before 1648. Most of the people who wanted to fight had got themselves killed.

The Peace of Westphalia was perceived as being something of a universal peace, which would end war for all times.

So I think it is correct to say that the end of the war led to the Peace of Westphalia: it was more than just the end to a war, it was an attempt to put an end to war as a whole in Europe. It even worked quite well, for a while, allowing some very nice cultural developments to get under way over the next hundred years.

Among other things, it had very nice consequences for my new home town of Dresden, which got beautifully rebuilt over the next hundred years, and for the German Baroque music, Bach etc., that I like to play.


    Reference: http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/peace_of_westphalia.htm
    Reference: http://www.candcmusic.de
Chris Rowson
Local time: 18:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 243
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57 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
The sentence is wrong


Explanation:
The Peace of Westphalia actually ended
the Thirty-year War.
Pls see below:

The Peace of Westphalia was the treaty that ended the Thirty Years War in Europe. The treaty was
signed October 24 1648, and meant an end to the long conflict between Catholic and Protestant forces.

Peace of Westphalia : Online Dictionary - DataSegment.com
... Letter P : Peace of Westphalia. ... Peace of Westphalia n : the peace treaty that
ended the Thirty Years' War in 1648 [syn: Peace of Westphalia] -- wordnet. ...
onlinedictionary.datasegment.com/ word/Peace%20of%20Westphalia/ - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Untitled
1648. The Peace of Westphalia ended the Thirty Years War that ravaged
Germany. The war marked religious controversy between Protestantism ...
home.wanadoo.nl/gerard.vonhebel/1648.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages



Monica Colangelo
Argentina
Local time: 13:07
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 59

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lydia Molea
55 mins

agree  Berni Armstrong: My gut feeling said it must be that way around. But I was too busy to check it out in my Britannica.
2 hrs
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