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English translation: such as

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:as
English translation:such as
Entered by: jerrie
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12:34 Dec 27, 2002
English to English translations [PRO]
English term or phrase: as
The results went far beyond the enormous losses **as**thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns or the physical destruction of property.

I just don't know if I should read "as" as "namely", "such as" (e.g.the results went far beyond the enormous losses, such as thousands of young men massacred and property destroyed) or "since" (i.e. it would provide an explanation of why the results went beyond the losses; in this case I feel a verb should go with "physical destruction"). What do you guys think?
Rubén de la Fuente
Local time: 04:55
such as
Explanation:
The results went far beyond the enormous losses such as the thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men who were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns or the physical destruction of property.

This conveys that the results were more far reaching than the examples given of physical loss of life and property, while linking the 2 examples.

Just an idea.
Like you say, if you use 'since' it leaves the 'or the physical destruction of property' as a stand alone that seems to have something missing.

hth
Selected response from:

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Grading comment
Cheers!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +4given that
Libero_Lang_Lab
5 +3when (post grading)Chris Rowson
5 +2"considering the fact that"
Christopher Crockett
5 +1since
Simon Oliver
4 +1as
Bill Greendyk
3 +1such as
jerrie
3because / since / for
Cilian O'Tuama


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
given that


Explanation:
because, since

This is how I understand it here Ruben


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-27 12:41:17 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\'As\' is absolutely fine - I was not suggesting you replace it - just explaining what it means in this context.

Libero_Lang_Lab
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 137

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  NancyLynn
3 mins

agree  xxxEDLING
21 mins

agree  vixen
1 hr

agree  Christopher Crockett: Yes, not "such as." And it can be left as is (though it is somewhat eliptical and may be difficult for non-native speakers to understand).
2 hrs
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
because / since / for


Explanation:
IMO any of above could be substituted without changing the meaning

however, 'to be mown down by the physical destruction of property' does sound strange.

Cilian O'Tuama
Local time: 04:55
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 447
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
as


Explanation:
Hi Ruben,

Although "since" could in effect replace "as," I would still go for "as," since it brings along with it a simultaneous sense -- as the young men went over the hill, the results went far beyond ....."

My gut feeling says "as" is the best choice. Let's see what the others feel.

Greetings!

Bill Greendyk
United States
Local time: 22:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, I couldn't agree more --- to me, there is a definite sense of 'time' here
5 hrs
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
since


Explanation:
depends on the context as well: there could be a meaning of 'while'. ie 'While thousands and thousands of young men etc... the results went beyond the enormous losses; But I think 'since' is the most appropriate meaning.

Simon Oliver
France
Local time: 04:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Refugio: As is the best choice because it combines both since and while.
18 mins
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
such as


Explanation:
The results went far beyond the enormous losses such as the thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men who were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns or the physical destruction of property.

This conveys that the results were more far reaching than the examples given of physical loss of life and property, while linking the 2 examples.

Just an idea.
Like you say, if you use 'since' it leaves the 'or the physical destruction of property' as a stand alone that seems to have something missing.

hth

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 773
Grading comment
Cheers!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: Ahhh...I see now. Your "such as" works with the second clause "the physical destruction..."
2 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
when (post grading)


Explanation:
I actually read this differently frommy respected colleagues. I think this is a perfectly normal use of "as" in a sense close to "when".

The reason no-one else is seeing this, I hypothesise, is because the sentence is awkwardly unbalanced. "The results went far beyond ... " - beyond two things:

a) "enormous losses as [~when] the thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men who were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns"

and

b) "the physical destruction of property".

The first of the two is so long that the sentence unbalances and it is hard to see how it is structured.

The verb that goes with physical destruction is "went (far beyond)".

Maybe I´m nuts, but to me it is very clear and very normal, when you get over the imbalance problem.

Chris Rowson
Local time: 04:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 243

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: Right. It's not just an "imbalance problem," however, but one of a lack of parallelism as well.
1 hr

agree  Tony M: Yes, just what I was trying to get at above; only you expressed it better!
4 hrs
  -> I now see that, like you, I am agreeing with William. Apart from that, Rubén sent me a nice email saying thanks, now he understands the sentence.

agree  AhmedAMS
9 days
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
"considering the fact that"


Explanation:
I don't think that "such as" is quite right here.

"As" is one of those little words whose definition can take up columns in a good dictionary.

This is "as" used "Of reason" :

"In conformity with, or in consideration of, the fact that; it being the case that; inasmuch as; since."

"The results went far beyond the enormous losses **considering the fact that** thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns or the physical destruction of property."

Definitely not "such as."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-12-27 15:44:11 (GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I\'m beginning to understand the differences in answers now, thanks to Cilian\'s \"sounds strange\" and Chris\' evaluation.

The problem with the sentence, imHo, is that it\'s not only \"unbalanced\" but lacks parallelism (\"Correspondence, *in sense or construction*, of successive clauses or passages\").

In *both* \"sense and construction\" in this case.

Consider :
\"The results went far beyond the enormous losses [in as much as/since] thousands and thousands of enthusiastic young men were sent over the top to be mown down by machine guns or [SIC: \"and\"] the physical destruction of property.\"

This solves the \"construction\" parallelism, but the two clauses are still, as Chris points out, very \"unbalanced,\" both qantitatively (number of words used) and qualitatively (moral weight of the two \"losses\").

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 22:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 124

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cilian O'Tuama: post-whatever: food for thought! :-)
1 day14 hrs
  -> O.k., I'll bring the wine. Thanks, Cilian.

agree  AhmedAMS
9 days
  -> Thanks, Ahmed.
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