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English to Arabic translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Linguistics / Textypology
English term or phrase:Argumentation
Dear big brothers and sisters,
The starting point is that within the translation of argumentation, one may find indications of how the items contribute to specify the argumentative orientation of a sentence stylistically. The assumption is that surface and deep structures are organized intendedly to follow certain argumentative strategies for or against specific conclusions. Therefore, identifying textual features of argumentation is not that easy task for the translator. Elements such as thesis cited, counter argument and justification are main elements. It is best described as an argumentative tactic whose main task is to convince a reader to either take or avoid a given proposition. Let's say that a SLT writer has used ellipsis intendedly and the translator has only echoed the (...). What changes are expected to appear in the TLT. One may think that the few words that preceed the ellipsis are contained in a front page line while the chosen words which come after the ellipsis are taken from another page. Simply, a writer's intellectuality may be beyond reach when such quote is taken from an authority like the late Edward Said (May Allah's infinite mercy be upon him). The following qoutation is my projection, and it is followed with questions.
SLT. “On a visit to Beirut during the terrible civil war of 1975–1976 a French journalist wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area “it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval”.
TLT" في زيارة لبيروت أثناء الحرب الأهلية الرهيبة ۱۹۷٥- ۱۹۷٦ كتب صحفي فرنسي بلهجة آسفة لدمار الوسط الحيوي للمدينه: " لقد بد ت ذات يوم كأنها تنتمي إلى ... شرق شاتوبريان و نر فال ".
Who can help in giving the French journalist name who is said to have visited Beriut?
What changes may occure when transferring such qoute since it is a qoute inside another (reinforced semantically) containing an elipsis? If possible, my intended next sci. paper will tackle this topic. If there are any academic advice I will be gratefull.
Best Regards. A. A. A.
1st Ques. I got the name of the qoute encoder (Thierry Desjardins). Thanx to Atida.com.
How can informativity & intertextuality in the abovementioned qoute help in identifying the assumed upcoming & projected thesis of argumentation? If the impact of meaning is tangible, please see the ... (ellipsis tech) in the way it influences the embedded metaphore in using the word (Orient). So How an ellipsis can be meaningful to this degree??????
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Answers
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
argumentation
الحجاج
Explanation: المحاججة
الجدل
المجادلة
يتمثل الحجاج في إنجاز متواليات من الأقوال بعضها هو بمثابة الحجج اللغوية، وبعضها الآخر هو بمثابة النتائج التي تستنتج منها
Pleading: محاجّة
argumentation:
the act or art or an exercise of one's powers of argument
example: noted for his skill in argumentation
Shazly Egypt Local time: 18:15 Native speaker of: Arabic PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
I thank you for the link and more for the encouragement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Dear shazly, I initiate by a big thank you for the data. I hope that I can participate to help people in quite the same way you do.
23 mins confidence:
argumentation
Desjardins (See Ilustration) by Edward Saied
Explanation: Orientalism
Edward Said
Random House 1978
From The Post-Colonial Studies Reader
Edited by Bill Ashcroft, Gareth Griffiths, Helen Triffin
Routledge, NY and London @1995
ON A VISIT to Beirut during the terrible civil war of 1975-1976 a French journalist wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area that ‘it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval’ (Desjardins 1976: 14). He was right about the place, of course, especially so far as a European was concerned. The Orient was almost a European invention, and had been since antiquity a place of romance, exotic beings, haunting memories and landscapes, remarkable experiences. Now it was disappearing; in a sense it had happened, its time was over. Perhaps it seemed irrelevant that Orientals themselves had something at stake in the process, that even in the time of Chateaubriand and Nerval Orientals had lived there, and that now it was they who were suffering; the main thing for the European visitor was a European representation of the Orient and its contemporary fate, both of which had a privileged communal significance for the journalist and his French readers... .
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Subject ellipsis is one of the characteristics
of informal English. The investigation
of subject ellipsis in corpora thus reveals
an abundance of pragmatic and extralinguistic
information associated with
subject ellipsis that enhances natural language
understanding. In essence, the
presence of subject ellipsis conveys an
‘informal’ conversation involving 1) an
informal ‘Topic’ as well as familiar/close
‘Participants’, 2) specific ‘Connotations’
that are different from the corresponding
full sentences: interruptive (ending discourse
coherence), polite, intimate,
friendly, and less determinate implicatures.
This paper also construes linguistic
environments that trigger the use of subject
ellipsis and resolve subject ellipsi http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/W/W06/W06-3501.pdf
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it means
أن ظاهرة التخاطب العقلي المسبق قد تكون تماما مشابه لم يحدث واقعيا قيما بعد
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لهذا كانت التشبيه الدقيق بين ما كتبة الصحفي وماكان يدور بخلده أنذاك
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Perhaps it seemed irrelevant that Orientals themselves had something at stake in the process, that even in the time of Chateaubriand and Nerval Orientals had lived there, and that now it was they who were suffering; the main thing for the European visitor was a European representation of the Orient and its contemporary fate, both of which had a privileged communal significance for the journalist and his French readers.
Americans will not feel quite the same about the Orient, which for them is much more likely to be associated very differently with the Far East (China and Japan, mainly). Unlike the Americans, the French and the British—less so the Germans,
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and ckech here also
I WANT TO THINK about Orientalism and some of its prehistories and alternative archaeologies by focusing attention on questions of time and the experience of time. I suggest that such questions interrupt the tendency to treat Orientalism primarily in terms of space, of East and West as simply spatial categories, by necessarily entailing ideas about history and historical development. As an object of knowledge for the West, the East seems to have been, from the start, a site of origins, a place with an important past but a troubling present. Edward Said's Orientalism (1978) opens by evoking the figure of nostalgia in recalling how a French journalist, reporting from Beirut after the civil war of 1975-1976, "wrote regretfully of the gutted downtown area that 'it had once seemed to belong to ... the Orient of Chateaubriand and Nerval." (1) For Said, the Orientalist chronotope is necessarily "backwardness," since the idea of Eastern backwardness follows directly from European ideas of "positional superiority" that have permeated Western thought "from the late Renaissance to the present." (2) In assigning the East to the past, Orientalism operates chronotopically, telling a story about time. Orientalism is also constituted by a formalized array of chronotopical elements that might well occur within systems of signification otherwise unrelated to Orientalism: nostalgia, for instance. Chronotopes both embody and convey some instantly recognizable or at least seemingly transparent sets of attitudes about another time by linking that time with a place. As such, they provide rhetorical ways of using temporality to provide at once a measure of both spatial difference and spatial distance.
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وهذا قول معارض لهذه الفكرة
بقوله ان ذلك اسقاطات من الحركة الفكرية الأوروبية
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The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
