10:04 Aug 18, 2011 

I fear this discussion is getting rather long, but it really is quite complicated. I deliberately referred to research using primary or secondary sources, rather than "personal research". Research using secondary sources can certainly be original in its analysis, insight and conclusions, but a mere "compilation" does not really amount to research at all.

09:54 Aug 18, 2011 

@Corinne
Vous venez de résumer en français ce que j'essayais de dire en anglais depuis un certain nombre de posts, sans doute trop maladroitement pour me faire bien comprendre.
Toute la question est, comme vous le dites très bien : y a-t-il eu ou non dissertation/thesis et/ou experimental project dans ce BA en particulier ? De là dépend la légitimité de la mention "équivalent maîtrise" qui fait l'objet de la question de BD Finch. (Ceci, indépendamment du fait que bien sûr, depuis la réforme LMD, on ne délivre plus de maîtrises.)
@BD Finch
As Corinne said in her comment, the relevant question is: did the success in obtaining this degree depend mostly on personal research (not compilation of existing research) and writing a dissertation and/or an experimental project, with written report? If yes, "équivalent maîtrise" is legitimate. If not, I think it's incorrect.

09:45 Aug 18, 2011 

How much research is/was required for a maîtrise/Master I? Does that research have to use primary or can it just use secondary sources? You may be missing the difference between a BA and a BA (Hons); the latter does require more independent work than the former.

09:41 Aug 18, 2011 

@ Sandra. Les diplômes dispensés ne sont PLUS des Maitrises.. Le système LMD VISE (mais pas simple !) aux équivalences des diplômes, avec le système des points ECTS. La Sociologie, comme la Psycho est une Science sociale, un Bachelor (hons) avec "dissertation" ou "experimental project"donc, en GB, est de la même importance qu'un mémoire des anciennes Maitrises françaises.. je peux le dire car je suis passée dans les 2 systèmes (GB et FR) et ce dans les sciences sociales, et non les sciences dites "dures" ! Alors qu'en Licence - donc en France - (ai travaillé 4 ans à l'Univ de Montpellier III) pas de "dissertation" du tout (ou pas de l'importance des Master 1 ou ancienne Maitrise) en dernière année.

09:20 Aug 18, 2011 

On a perhaps more useful side to the asker, it just occurred to me that the subject matter of the degree is of some importance here:
What I said earlier about research in maîtrise didn't apply to sciences (in maths, physics, biology, computer science, etc. no research work was required to obtain the maîtrise), but since this particular degree is in sociology, I think the relevant question is whether there was personal research involved. If not, I don't think putting "équivalent maîtrise" is correct. If there was indeed research, it might be acceptable.

09:07 Aug 18, 2011 

In fact, official equivalence still doesn't exist:
"Il est important de noter qu’il n’existe pas de principe juridique d’équivalence entre les titres et les diplômes obtenus à l’étranger et les diplômes français délivrés par le ministère l’éducation nationale, de l’enseignement supérieur et de la recherche. Seule une attestation de reconnaissance de niveau d’études peut être obtenue. "
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/fr/services-formulaires_831/es...

09:03 Aug 18, 2011 

@ Claude Andrew
I suppose there is no end to the infinite variations of individual situations. And we can always add the poor knowledge of the English academic system among French public servants who would be in charge of judging if you in particular would allowed to sit the Capes (by the way, you used to need only a licence to do that) or the agrégation (try to do it with only a bachelor's degree! You need a maîtrise or master's degree to do that). Anyway, except in the case of a BA particularly research-oriented (and I am still not 100% certain), the official equivalent of a BA is a licence and a (English) MA would be a DEA (we are talking about the old system here). No real equivalent for a maîtrise.

Of course, I am talking about official équivalences. Speculation about actual levels of knowledge and training and about merits would put us very much in danger of being biased by patriotism, IMO. The frog would find in favour of France and the "rosbif", if you'll pardon my French, might be tempted to proclaim the English system superior.

08:54 Aug 18, 2011 

I did have to produce a dissertation in the final year of my BA, though the research was from secondary sources. In fact, the course was not wholly taught and relied very much on personal reading and self-directed study as well as seminars of about 6 to 8 students several times a week. Indeed, there were a couple of lecturers whose lectures I didn't bother going to because they were boring and my time was more profitably spent in a library, though I still presented them with essays to mark and attended their seminars. I escaped sanctions by getting top grades in their subjects. I was offered a PhD studentship without having to do an MA first, but didn't complete it. So, there is a fair bit of overlap between an English honours degree and a maîtrise.

As for the equivalence between "A" Levels and the bac, I agree they are equivalent, but "A" Levels are much more specialised and, certainly then, it was usual to only take 3 subjects, so the level achieved in those subjects was equivalent to 1st year undergraduate in the French system, but the French system had/has the virtue of a broader scope.

08:46 Aug 18, 2011 

Ah, we're a nice lot, we chemists! Additional info: Forced to take the CAPES English teacher's concours at age 54, I had to produce a qualification which "justified the subsequent pursual of doctoral research", for which my MRIC was accepted. So it is/was in this respect equivalent to Maîtrise.

08:35 Aug 18, 2011 

Thanks for the info. Many years ago, I had a summer job as temporary secretary to the President of the RSC, who was one of the nicest people I temped for.

08:34 Aug 18, 2011 

A maîtrise always was (it doesn't exist anymore) a degree awarded to a student who had done some personal research, written a substantial thesis to report it and presented said thesis (soutenance de maîtrise) before the jury. There was one or two "séminaires", different from licence lessons, usually research brainstorming sessions but sometimes taught courses, but it was a very small part of the final grade.
You may feel that a good BA is "downgraded" by being called a "licence" but if there was no research work involved (taught course only, I think it is called), it is very misleading to call it a maîtrise and I think it is past the limits of acceptable CV boosting.
I am speaking about France, by the way, don't know about other French speaking countries. It is not to say that this system (the French) is better than that one (the English) but A-level is considered to be the same level as baccalauréat in France and not bac+1.

20:43 Aug 17, 2011 

My British qualification was Member of the Royal Society of Chemistry, which is (or was) a 4-year sandwich course containing about 3 equivalent years of teaching and followed by a probationary year in full-time employment. I tried to find some official equivalence (1975) bu discovered that none existed. Thenceforeward I described my qualification (to Education Nationale) as "Maîtrise" and nobody questioned it. In short I think your own suggestion is OK.

14:25 Aug 17, 2011 

Thanks for clarifying!

14:23 Aug 17, 2011 

The problem is that calling this a "licence" downgrades it, which is not what one wants to do on a CV. The degree in question is a good 2:1 honours degree (the holder was told that they narrowly missed being called for a viva for 1st class honours) from a top English university. Though this was a 3-year course of study, I believe that it is considered equivalent to 4-year courses in other countries, especially given that the level of specialisation of "A" Levels means that students start their first year from a higher base.

14:06 Aug 17, 2011 

Licence ou Maitrise?