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Common Fault

French translation: défaut commun

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Common Fault
French translation:défaut commun
Entered by: elysee
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19:03 May 1, 2008
English to French translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Electronics / Elect Eng / systèmes d'extinction
English term or phrase: Common Fault
contexte: centrale - systèmes d'extinction -


Mon texte d'origine est en italien mais dans ma traduction en français je ne peux pas garder les mots en anglais (contrairement à l'itelien qui en abuse souvent par comodité!)
Voici mon texte traduit en français (mais encore à relire et vérifié):

j'ai des doutes pour bien traduire ici en FRANçAIS le terme "COMMON" dans ces différentes expressions... (VOIR Où IL Y A LES "???" )
et malgré la consultation du GTD, j'ai un doute pour "FAULT", j'avais mis dans tout mon texte "PANNE" mais maintenant en phase de relecture je doute avec la traduction de "ERREUR". ...
Merci beaucoup d'avance pour votre aide!

++++++++++++++

LED COMMON FAULT:
Témoin LED "PANNE COMMUNE" ???/"DEFAUT COMMUN" ?? (COMMON FAULT)
(fonction incendie /intrusion)
Il s’active de façon intermittente après une condition de panne quelconque. Il s’éteint quand la cause cesse ou après la commande de remise à l’état initial de l’anomalie.

LED COMMON DISABLED
Témoin LED "COMMUN DÉSACTIVÉ" ??? (COMMON DISABLED) (fonction incendie)
Il s’active de façon fixe après n’importe quel type de désactivation concernant la zone 1 (Sécurité/Safety).

Condition de désactivé
À la suite de la désactivation d’un dispositif, la centrale effectue les actions suivantes:
· Activation de façon fixe du témoin LED "commun désactivé " ???? (Common Disabled).
· Activation de façon fixe du témoin LED dispositifs désactivés (Devices Disabled).
· Activation du relais par défaut désactivé (default Disabled).
· Activation de façon fixe du témoin LED avertisseurs sonores désactivés (Sounders Disabled). (Seulement si la sortie est de type avertisseurs sonores (Sounders))

1.9.1 Condition d’anomalie
À la suite d’une condition d’anomalie, la centrale effectue les actions suivantes:
· Activation du buzzer local
· Activation de façon intermittente du témoin LED "panne commune" ??? (Common Fault).
· Activation de façon intermittente du témoin LED panne dispositifs (Devices Fault). (S’il ne s’agit pas d’une panne de système)
· Activation de façon intermittente du témoin LED panne de système (System Fault). (S’il s’agit d’une panne de système)
· Activation de façon intermittente du témoin LED panne avertisseurs sonores (Sounders Fault).
· Désactivation des relais de panne par défaut (default Fault) incendie.

Sorties non supervisionnées:
Pour chaque carte FB-S0001.1 sont disponibles les sorties non supervisionnées suivantes:
· Sortie Condition de "panne" ??? (Fault condition) ???
· Sortie Condition fonction désactivée (Disabled condition)
· Sortie Condition d’inibition (Inhibit condition)
· Sortie Condition d’attente (Hold condition)
elysee
Italy
Local time: 12:43
défaut commun
Explanation:
I think 'défaut' is OK here, and is what I'm most used to seeing on various types of equipment — though I do acknowledge that M/M has a very valid point about the ambiguity of that word.

Not sure about your 'temoin', I'd sort of expect to see 'voyant' (though I do realize both terms are commonly used)

Also 'de façon intermittent' — not sure what your source text says, but 'intermittently' suggests a kind of randomness that is not usual in this sort of context; I suspect you might need something like 'clignoter', which is more appropriate to describe an LED that is flashing or blinking at a more or less consistent rate.

Also a bit wary of your 'condition' — I suspect that 'état' could possibly be more appropriate here.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-05-01 21:24:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or of course for 'fault condition' you might wish to consider 'dis/dysfonctionnement'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:27:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is argua

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:35:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is arguably slightly inadvisable to use 'panne' for 'fault', as 'panne' tends to imply a breakdown (= something isn't working), whereas a 'fault' can simply indicate an anomalous situation that doesn't prevent operation.

I really think you are trying to 'chercher midi à 14 h' here — 'défaut' is ever so commonly found in exactly these sort of contexts, and if it causes you any kind of terminology conflict with 'default' = 'par défaut', then I'm sure those occurrences will be minor, and you should be able to disambiguate it fairly easy in a few, isolated cases. After all, FR source texts cheerfully use both terms side by side, and no-one seems to get terminally confused.

As for 'common', we don't have enough detail of the system as a whole to quite know why these things are being referred to as 'common' — it would reauire much more detailed knowledge of how the system works to understand that. It could have many possible significations, but despite the fact that FR is not of course my native language I have seen enough FR technical documents to know that generally speaking, the term 'commun' is used in almost exactly parallel ways to the word 'common' in EN, and I see nothing at all in any of the context examples given to lead me to think that any other translation would be desirable — or indeed, possible.

So I can only suggest that you adopt 'commun' for 'common' and 'défaut' for 'fault', and find alternative solutions for any other terms with which that might clash.

To some extent, this kind of telegraphic language doesn't "make sense" in EN (but presumably does to the informed reader who has the system in front of them) — and the same is probably going to be true of your translation: it might not appear to make sense to you, but the technician reading it will understand what it is all about.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:41:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The original word order would, of course, make a big difference if this was a purely EN doc. Instead of transalting from IT > FR and then asking the question, please could you translate some of these terms from IT > EN, so that we can follow the word order correctly.

For example, is LED COMMON FAULT your FR word order, or EN? It makes a huge difference! If it is FR, then we should understand it as the 'common fault' LED — which is what I have been assuming all along, and which seems to make most sense in all your examples.

So the 'common disabled' LED is there to warn that this 'common' feature (whatever it is) has been disabled.

But of course, it might equally be a 'common LED' to indicate a 'fault' (as M/M has assumed) — do you see why it is so crucial for you to explain these word order issues? Personally, because of the other examples, I'm far from convinced this latter interpretation is correct... but the issue is going to be central to resolving your translation doubts.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 12:43
Grading comment
Un grand merci à tous et à Tony pour cette longue recherche !
Après longue réflexion j'ai opté pour cette solution:
common fault = défaut commun

ainsi que "FAULT" = DÉFAUT" et "COMMON" = "COMMUN"
dans les différentes versions où j'avais ces termes.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1anomalie
ViktoriaG
4panne
Robin Levey
3défaut commun
Tony M


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
common fault
panne


Explanation:
'common' is used here to refer to a single warning LED that indicates there is a problem "somewhere in the system" but does not specify exactly where; it is 'common' in the sense tht this one LED is common to (i.e., shared by) several fault detectors. Such LEDs are usually backed up with other LEDs that help to pin-point the part of the system that has failed.

This interpretation follows from: "Il s’active de façon intermittente après une **condition de panne quelconque***" and "après ***n’importe quel type de désactivation***"

In this context, 'panne' seems more appropriate than 'erreur'. I would avoid 'defaut' which might be confused with 'default' as in 'default configuration' for example (config. par defaut).

The best translation of 'common fault' may depend on possible conflucts with terminology used elsewhere in the text. Some options would be:
- 'panne (non identifiée)'
- 'panne générale' (but this is open to mis-interpretation in the sense of a catastrophic failure)
- 'panne' (tout court)

Without more context, I'd just put 'panne'.

Robin Levey
Chile
Local time: 07:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 203

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I agree with all your arguments in general, but I'm much more used to seeing 'défaut' as a label on this kind of equipment
1 hr
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
common fault
défaut commun


Explanation:
I think 'défaut' is OK here, and is what I'm most used to seeing on various types of equipment — though I do acknowledge that M/M has a very valid point about the ambiguity of that word.

Not sure about your 'temoin', I'd sort of expect to see 'voyant' (though I do realize both terms are commonly used)

Also 'de façon intermittent' — not sure what your source text says, but 'intermittently' suggests a kind of randomness that is not usual in this sort of context; I suspect you might need something like 'clignoter', which is more appropriate to describe an LED that is flashing or blinking at a more or less consistent rate.

Also a bit wary of your 'condition' — I suspect that 'état' could possibly be more appropriate here.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-05-01 21:24:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or of course for 'fault condition' you might wish to consider 'dis/dysfonctionnement'

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:27:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is argua

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:35:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

It is arguably slightly inadvisable to use 'panne' for 'fault', as 'panne' tends to imply a breakdown (= something isn't working), whereas a 'fault' can simply indicate an anomalous situation that doesn't prevent operation.

I really think you are trying to 'chercher midi à 14 h' here — 'défaut' is ever so commonly found in exactly these sort of contexts, and if it causes you any kind of terminology conflict with 'default' = 'par défaut', then I'm sure those occurrences will be minor, and you should be able to disambiguate it fairly easy in a few, isolated cases. After all, FR source texts cheerfully use both terms side by side, and no-one seems to get terminally confused.

As for 'common', we don't have enough detail of the system as a whole to quite know why these things are being referred to as 'common' — it would reauire much more detailed knowledge of how the system works to understand that. It could have many possible significations, but despite the fact that FR is not of course my native language I have seen enough FR technical documents to know that generally speaking, the term 'commun' is used in almost exactly parallel ways to the word 'common' in EN, and I see nothing at all in any of the context examples given to lead me to think that any other translation would be desirable — or indeed, possible.

So I can only suggest that you adopt 'commun' for 'common' and 'défaut' for 'fault', and find alternative solutions for any other terms with which that might clash.

To some extent, this kind of telegraphic language doesn't "make sense" in EN (but presumably does to the informed reader who has the system in front of them) — and the same is probably going to be true of your translation: it might not appear to make sense to you, but the technician reading it will understand what it is all about.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-05-02 15:41:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The original word order would, of course, make a big difference if this was a purely EN doc. Instead of transalting from IT > FR and then asking the question, please could you translate some of these terms from IT > EN, so that we can follow the word order correctly.

For example, is LED COMMON FAULT your FR word order, or EN? It makes a huge difference! If it is FR, then we should understand it as the 'common fault' LED — which is what I have been assuming all along, and which seems to make most sense in all your examples.

So the 'common disabled' LED is there to warn that this 'common' feature (whatever it is) has been disabled.

But of course, it might equally be a 'common LED' to indicate a 'fault' (as M/M has assumed) — do you see why it is so crucial for you to explain these word order issues? Personally, because of the other examples, I'm far from convinced this latter interpretation is correct... but the issue is going to be central to resolving your translation doubts.

Tony M
France
Local time: 12:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1343
Grading comment
Un grand merci à tous et à Tony pour cette longue recherche !
Après longue réflexion j'ai opté pour cette solution:
common fault = défaut commun

ainsi que "FAULT" = DÉFAUT" et "COMMON" = "COMMUN"
dans les différentes versions où j'avais ces termes.
Notes to answerer
Asker: dans le texte original en italien (et client italien) il y a le terme "CONDIZIONE / CONDIZIONE DI..." dans tous les paragraphes de ce genre et donc dans ma traduction en français j'ai mis "CONDITION / CONDITION DE....". par contre, dans certaines autres phrases, il y a dans mon texte italien "STATO" et donc dans ce cas j'ai mis en français "ÉTAT"

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22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
common fault
anomalie


Explanation:
Attention! Un 'fault' n'est pas nécessairement une panne. Par définition, une panne signifie que quelque chose ne fonctionne pas ou fonctionne de façon insatisfaisante. Mais un 'fault', ça peut aussi bien être un avertissement. Par exemple, lorsqu'une imprimante signale qu'il ne reste que 25 % de l'encre dans la cartouche et qu'il faudra bientôt la remplacer, tout fonctionne encore à la normale, mais l'avertissement et les conditions qui l'ont déclenché constituent un 'fault', tant au niveau de la perception de l'utilisateur qu'au niveau de l'électronique. Du moment qu'un capteur capte l'évènement pour lequel il a été conçu, il y a 'fault'. Donc, 'fault' veut simplement dire qu'un signal a été capté, mais ça ne veut pas dire qu'il y a panne.

Le terme 'anomalie' est largement accepté dans ce contexte dans le domaine de l'électronique.

Dans mon Dictionnaire anglais-français de l'électronique et de l'électrotechnique, de Pierre Rényi et Dominique Amrouni, Éditions Rényi, c'est un des termes proposés. Ils y proposent également défaut, défectuosité, dérangement, incident, panne et vice, mais chacun de ces mots est employé dans un contexte spécifique.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2008-05-02 17:27:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Petite remarque: d'habitude, dans ce contexte, le mot anglais 'condition' devient 'cause' en français. Donc, 'fault condition' serait 'cause d'anomalie' ou 'cause de l'anomalie'.


    Reference: http://patents.ic.gc.ca/cipo/cpd/en/patent/2277001/summary.h...
ViktoriaG
Canada
Local time: 06:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: dans le texte original en italien (et client italien) il y a le terme "CONDIZIONE / CONDIZIONE DI..." dans tous les paragraphes de ce genre et donc dans ma traduction en français j'ai mis "CONDITION / CONDITION DE....". par contre, dans certaines autres phrases, il y a dans mon texte italien "STATO" et donc dans ce cas j'ai mis en français "ÉTAT"


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Your explanation is excellent, but I would say that a warning lamp (or a button) is still more likely to be labelled 'défaut'; not at all sure, though, about 'cause', needs to be used with care!
15 mins

agree  Agnès Levillayer: Je suppose que commun fault est utilisé ici dans le sens de "problème générique" et anomalie est le terme le plus neutre
10 days
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Changes made by editors
May 24, 2008 - Changes made by elysee:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/75875">elysee's</a> old entry - "Common Fault" » "défaut commun"
May 24, 2008 - Changes made by elysee:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/75875">elysee's</a> old entry - "Common Fault" » "défaut commun"


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