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garret-master

German translation: Mansarden-Meister

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21:24 Apr 1, 2003
English to German translations [PRO]
English term or phrase: garret-master
kommt bei Henry Mayhew (London Labor and the London Poor) vor. Muss irgendwas mit dem "Sweatshop-System" zu tun haben. Subunternehmer ist mir zu modern, Dachkammerchef klingt zu salopp. Gibt es einen eingeführten deutschen Ausdruck? (Mayhew ist anscheinend nur in Auszügen übersetzt)
xxxIlse_Utz
Local time: 04:05
German translation:Mansarden-Meister
Explanation:
It seems that the term was coined for a specific trade, namely the trade of cabinet makers:

"The cabinet and upholstery trade is not exempt. Sub-contracting here,
as in clothing, is the first step in sweating. The evidence shows that
sweating began in this business as early as 1855, but has rapidly
increased under pauper immigration from Italy and Russia since 1880.
Much of the work is crowded into garrets and cellars, where there are
no sanitary arrangements. So universally is this so, that the sweater
in this business is called a "garret master."
[The preceding paragraph states that workers in the fur trade were referred to as "chamber masters"]
Your context will tell you if Mansarden-Tischler would be too specific( which I think it is). I have not been able to find any references for this word, but "Mansarden-Meister" has a nice 19th century ring to it.
Selected response from:

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 19:05
Grading comment
Erst mal besten Dank an alle. Ich habe aus anderen Texten (per Google) den Eindruck, dass anfangs vor allem Tischler so bezeichnet wurden, der Ausdruck scheint dann aber auf alle selbständigen Handwerker, die auf eigene Rechnung arbeiteten, ausgedehnt worden zu sein. Die deutsche Literatur aus dieser Zeit zu diesem Thema (also vor allem Friedrich Engels) kennt keine deutsche Ensprechung, es ist einfach von "kleinen Meistern" die Rede. Der kleine Meister muss keine Lohnarbeiter haben, also kein Lohnherr. Er ist die "Ich-AG" des frühen 19. Jahrhunderts. Ich muss mich irgendwie aus der Affäre ziehen (Ausdruck vielleicht stehen lassen mit Erläuterung). "Mansarde" klingt mir inzwischen auch zu vornehm für solche Dachkammern. Für's Kudoz-Glossar wohl nicht geeignet.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +1Lohnherr
Kim Metzger
3 +1Mansarden-Meister
Johanna Timm, PhD


  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Mansarden-Meister


Explanation:
It seems that the term was coined for a specific trade, namely the trade of cabinet makers:

"The cabinet and upholstery trade is not exempt. Sub-contracting here,
as in clothing, is the first step in sweating. The evidence shows that
sweating began in this business as early as 1855, but has rapidly
increased under pauper immigration from Italy and Russia since 1880.
Much of the work is crowded into garrets and cellars, where there are
no sanitary arrangements. So universally is this so, that the sweater
in this business is called a "garret master."
[The preceding paragraph states that workers in the fur trade were referred to as "chamber masters"]
Your context will tell you if Mansarden-Tischler would be too specific( which I think it is). I have not been able to find any references for this word, but "Mansarden-Meister" has a nice 19th century ring to it.



    Reference: http://www.ibiblio.org/gutenberg/etext04/wtslv10.txt
Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 19:05
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 4322
Grading comment
Erst mal besten Dank an alle. Ich habe aus anderen Texten (per Google) den Eindruck, dass anfangs vor allem Tischler so bezeichnet wurden, der Ausdruck scheint dann aber auf alle selbständigen Handwerker, die auf eigene Rechnung arbeiteten, ausgedehnt worden zu sein. Die deutsche Literatur aus dieser Zeit zu diesem Thema (also vor allem Friedrich Engels) kennt keine deutsche Ensprechung, es ist einfach von "kleinen Meistern" die Rede. Der kleine Meister muss keine Lohnarbeiter haben, also kein Lohnherr. Er ist die "Ich-AG" des frühen 19. Jahrhunderts. Ich muss mich irgendwie aus der Affäre ziehen (Ausdruck vielleicht stehen lassen mit Erläuterung). "Mansarde" klingt mir inzwischen auch zu vornehm für solche Dachkammern. Für's Kudoz-Glossar wohl nicht geeignet.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kim Metzger: I like Mansardenmeister, but I don't think it applies only to cabinetmakers.
27 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Lohnherr


Explanation:
I really don't know if the archaic Lohnherr is the right term here, but it seems to capture the idea fairly well.

The common idea that the " sweater " is an unscrupulous tyrant, who fulfils no useful function, and who makes enormous profits, has no counterpart in fact. Whatever may have been the case in earlier days, before the internecine competition of the " middlemen " had time to produce its inevitable effects upon the position of these sub-employers, it may now be considered to be beyond dispute that the small master (" sub-contractor," " garret master," " fogger," &c.) usually works at least as hard as his employes, and that his gains are, as a rule, no more than a fair return for the work which he performs—work which in many instances consists in doing some difficult part of the job, and in all cases in organizing the labour engaged. So far as concerns the " manufacturer," by whom the " sweater " is employed, and who is clearly the causa causans of " the sweating system," for him the practice of getting his work done in outside workshops is undoubtedly convenient, especially in localities where rent is high, because he is saved the expense of providing accommodation for those who do his work.

Theorie eines Hamburger Patriziers über das Wesen der Armut (1834)
Sobald der Tagelöhner niemandem mehr angehört, so wird natürlich auch niemand (aus Interesse) mehr für ihn sorgen. Freilich besteht auch dann noch ein Band zwischen ihm und dem Lohnherrn; aber das Band des egoistischen Interesses ... ist nur Hunger auf der einen und kalte, berechnende Habsucht auf der andern Seite. Das natürliche Bestreben der Lohnherren geht überall auf mögliche Herabsetzung des Lohns oder Preises der Arbeit hin; nur dadurch vermögen sie das erwünschteste Ziel aller ihrer Bemühungen, wohlfeile Production, zu erlangen; daher ist ihnen im speciellen Interesse ihres Geschäfts auch alles willkommen, was diesen Zweck directe oder indirecte befördern wird; vor allem die Zunahme der Dürftigen oder Armen in deren hungriger Arbeitsconcurrenz sie das Hauptmittel zur Erreichung ihres Ziels erblicken.

http://www.hamburg.de/Behoerden/Pressestelle/hh4849/kapitela...



    Reference: http://23.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SW/SWEATING_SYSTEM.htm
    Reference: http://www.hamburg.de/Behoerden/Pressestelle/hh4849/kapitela...
Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 21:05
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2598

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Hermann
3 hrs
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