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I am greener than grass

Greek translation: πιο πράσινη στο χρώμα κι από χόρτο / κι απ' την κομμένη χλόη πιο χλομή

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:I am greener than grass
Greek translation:πιο πράσινη στο χρώμα κι από χόρτο / κι απ' την κομμένη χλόη πιο χλομή
Entered by: Nick Lingris
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
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21:54 Jun 14, 2005
English to Greek translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase: I am greener than grass
Hello,
I was wondering what this phrase "I am greener than grass" would be in modern Greek. It is from a poem by the ancient Greek poetess and lyrist Sappho and the original Ancient Greek was 'chlorotera de poias emmi'. Greek has of course, changed since then although not as much as the Romance languages have from Latin. Likewise, English and Irish Gaelic speakers of today would recognize little of the English of Alfred The Great or the Irish of Duns Scotus.
Any help with a translation would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again everybody!

Sincerely,

Brian Costello

Seattle, Wa.
Brian Costello
πιο πράσινη στο χρώμα κι από χόρτο
Explanation:
From a translation by P. Lekatsas:
You can find it here:
http://users.otenet.gr/~scoutari/Sappho.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2005-06-14 22:02:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively:
πιο πράσινη από φύλλο είμαι στο χρώμα
http://www.e-lefkas.gr/GRPages/FirstPage/Culture/OldArticles...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2005-06-14 22:15:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mind you, I prefer the first version. It is more accurate and more rhythmical as well as alliterative.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 20 mins (2005-06-15 00:15:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The first version reads:
pio prAsini sto hrOma ki apo hOrto

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 39 mins (2005-06-16 22:33:52 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Brian, I preferred the Lekatsas version for the reasons I gave and also because it\'s closer to the English you gave.
However, my peers are correct in saying that the meaning of \"chloros\" as intended by Sappho is \"pale\". So allow me to add to the glossary the Greek for the French version as given by Costas Zannis: \"paler than cut grass\". I keep \"grass\" (rather than \"leaf\") because it corresponds to the original and is more likely to be yellow than a leaf on a tree. Also it gives us an alliteration of \"chl\".
So: \"πιο χλομή απ\' την κομμένη χλόη\" [pio hloMI aptin koMEni hlOi]


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 46 mins (2005-06-16 22:40:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively:
κι απ\' την κομμένη χλόη πιο χλομή
[ki ap tin koMEni hlOi pio hloMI]
Same translation, words transposed for better rhythm.
Selected response from:

Nick Lingris
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:08
Grading comment
Nick,
Thank you very much for your translations and your explanation why you think that one is a little better than the other.

Sincerely,

Brian Costello

Seattle, Wa.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +11χλωρότερη κι από τα φύλλαkaydee
4 +8πιο πράσινη στο χρώμα κι από χόρτο
Nick Lingris


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +11
i am greener than grass
χλωρότερη κι από τα φύλλα


Explanation:
chlorOteri ki apo ta fIlla
ή ακόμη και
χλωμότερη κι από τα φύλλα - chlomOteri ki apo ta fIlla
since the idea is that Sappho is paler than the grass because of her love

Just a suggestion, and with all due respect to Lekatsas, for I find χόρτο a bit prosaic

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs 44 mins (2005-06-15 14:38:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One thing I need to add (at the moment): I don\'t know which translation you are using for Sappho, but the idea in the original is that the poetess/narrator is more yellow than the grass basically. Acc. to LSJ, chloros means \'greenish yellow\', \'pale green\', (cf. Costas\' quotation of the french translation). So the idea behind the line is that she is paler than grass, she has lost her freshness and her colour. Being greener than grass would not make any sense in this case.
To sum up, with Costas\' suggestion in mind, I would suggest
chlomOteri ki apo tin (kommEni) chlOi / ki apo ti chlOi pio chlomI= paler than grass,
ki apo ta fIlla pio chlomI / chlomOteri ki apo ta fIlla = paler than the leaves
Just as a ref., I do remember an English lecturer commenting on the impossibility of Greek grass being anything other than of a pale green/yellow colour.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 17 mins (2005-06-15 15:11:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The ref. from LSJ

chlτros , a, on,

A. greenish-yellow, pale green, chlτrai rhτpes Od.16.47 ; oros . . chlτron h.Ap.223 ; chlτrai elatai Pi.Fr.167 , E.Ba.38; chlτrais hupo bassais S.OC673 (lyr.); chlτran an\' hulκn E.Hipp.17 ; donaki chlτron Eurτtan Id.Hel.349 (lyr.), cf. S.Ant.1132 (lyr.); also in Prose, sitou eti ch. ontos Th.4.6 ; ta phuomena ch. to prτton einai Thphr.Sens. 78 ; hκ ch. the green plaster, Androm. ap. Gal.13.470; chlτros lithos, = smaragdos, PHolm.5.10; of sea-water, Poet. ap. Plu.2.767f(cf. E.Fr. 1084); of other water, AP9.669.3 (Marian.): chlτra, hκ, green paint, as a stage-property to represent a river in scenery, Pap. in Eos. 32.30 (v/vi A. D.).
2. yellow, meli ch. Il.11.631 , Od.10.234; amphi chlτran psamathon on the yellow sand, S.Aj.1064; τiou to ch. yolk of egg, Zopyr. ap. Orib.14.61.1.
II. generally, pale, pallid, chlτros adamas Hes.Sc.231 : most freq.,
2. of persons, pale, chlτros hupai deious Il.10.376 , 15.4; ch. Achlus (personified) Hes.Sc.265; chlτrotera . . poias emmi Sapph.2.14 ; hence as an epith. of fear, chlτron deos Il.7.479 , Od.11.43, etc.; chlτrτi deimati A.Supp.566 (lyr.), cf. E.Supp.599 (lyr.): in Medic. writers, yellow, biliouslooking, ophthalmoi -oteroi v. l. in Hp.VM10; chrτma ch. ischein Id.Prog. 24 ; sτma . . oute ch. all\' huperuthron Th.2.49 ; also ch. ptuelos, ouron, Hp.Prog.14, VM10 (Comp.).
III. without regard to colour, green, i. e. fresh, opp. dry, esp. of wood, rhopalon . . chlτron elaοneon of green olive-wood, Od.9.320, cf. 379; opp. auos, Hes.Op.743; ta sphodra ch. akausta Arist.Mete.387a22 ; ch. xula ib.374a5, al.; of various things, chlτrai eersai Pi.N.8.40 ; turos ch. fresh cheese, Ar.Ra.559, Lys.23.6; of fish, fresh, not salted, Ath.7.309b; of fruit, fresh picked, IG22.1013.23, Dsc.1.113.
2. metaph., fresh, blooming, chlτron te kai bleponta Trag. ap. Hsch. (perh. to be read in A.Ag.677 for kai zτnta kai b.); leimτn anthesi (sed fort. ernesi) thallτn chlτrois E.IA1297 (lyr.); chlτron gonu Theoc.14.70 ; ch. haiama fresh, living, S.Tr.1055 , E.Hec.127 (anap.); ch. dakru fresh, bursting tear, E.Med.906, cf. 922, Hel.1189; chlτra dakruτn achna S.Tr.847 (lyr.); oinou chlτrai stagones sparkling, E.Cyc.67 (lyr.).
3. metaph., unripe, ch. kai anaima pragmata Gorg.Fr.16 . (Not contr. fr. chloeros but cogn. with it and chloκ.)


Although chloros can mean \'green\' and \'fresh\' (cf. III), in Sappho\'s line it is \'pale, palid\' (II.2)

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:...

kaydee
Local time: 01:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Costas Zannis: «pâle comme l’herbe arrachée» >> μεταφράζουν οι Γάλλοι. «χλωμότερη απ’ την κομμένη χλόη», άρα «κίτρινη» όχι «πράσινη» και χωρίς ζωή, ένα «ράκος» δηλαδή. terresdefemmes.blogs.com/ mon_weblog/2004/12/thme_et_variati.html
47 mins
  -> Ευχαριστώ, Κώστα. Ναι, ακριβώς αυτό είναι το όλο θέμα, της χλωμότητας: της κόβονται τα γόνατα, χλωμιάζει, ιδρώνει, κλπ...

agree  SGOUZA
50 mins
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Georgios Paraskevopoulos: κι αυτό είναι σωστό
1 hr
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Konstantinos Karanikas B.Sc. Electr. Eng., MITI
2 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Evdoxia R.
2 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Natassa Iosifidou: Ωραία και η γαλλική εκδοχή που προτείνει ο Κώστας.
3 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Katerina Athanasaki
3 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

disagree  Vicky Papaprodromou: Katerina, nowadays "chloros" refers to plants ONLY as opposed to "dry". Your title suggestion is out of the question, I'am afraid. We can't use this word to describe a person, not even poetically."Chlomoteri" is ok since this is the original meaning.
5 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ, Βίκυ. I know 'chloroteri' is not as common, and that is why I added 'chlomoteri' ( I should have used the latter for the title I suppose); but more important, 'chlomoteri' is for me closer to the text than L's translation (w. all due respect..)

agree  Elena Petelos
9 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Valentini Mellas: Great reference and justification :)
11 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ, Βαλεντίνη. Το ref του English lecturer με κάνει και θυμάμαι το ποίημα, πρέπει να ομολογήσω.

agree  xxxx-Translator: Να και μια ενδιαφέρουσα άποψη: http://www.literarytranslation.com/workshops/sapandcat/fromt...
14 hrs
  -> Πολύ ενδιαφέρον το link από πολλές απόψεις, ευχαριστώ πολύ.

agree  EN>ELTranslator
15 hrs
  -> Ευχαριστώ

agree  Nick Lingris: Let me know by private email if I have misrepresented anything in my note or you disagree with the glossary entry.
1 day17 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +8
πιο πράσινη στο χρώμα κι από χόρτο


Explanation:
From a translation by P. Lekatsas:
You can find it here:
http://users.otenet.gr/~scoutari/Sappho.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 mins (2005-06-14 22:02:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively:
πιο πράσινη από φύλλο είμαι στο χρώμα
http://www.e-lefkas.gr/GRPages/FirstPage/Culture/OldArticles...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2005-06-14 22:15:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Mind you, I prefer the first version. It is more accurate and more rhythmical as well as alliterative.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 20 mins (2005-06-15 00:15:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The first version reads:
pio prAsini sto hrOma ki apo hOrto

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 39 mins (2005-06-16 22:33:52 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Brian, I preferred the Lekatsas version for the reasons I gave and also because it\'s closer to the English you gave.
However, my peers are correct in saying that the meaning of \"chloros\" as intended by Sappho is \"pale\". So allow me to add to the glossary the Greek for the French version as given by Costas Zannis: \"paler than cut grass\". I keep \"grass\" (rather than \"leaf\") because it corresponds to the original and is more likely to be yellow than a leaf on a tree. Also it gives us an alliteration of \"chl\".
So: \"πιο χλομή απ\' την κομμένη χλόη\" [pio hloMI aptin koMEni hlOi]


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 46 mins (2005-06-16 22:40:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively:
κι απ\' την κομμένη χλόη πιο χλομή
[ki ap tin koMEni hlOi pio hloMI]
Same translation, words transposed for better rhythm.

Nick Lingris
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:08
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
PRO pts in category: 212
Grading comment
Nick,
Thank you very much for your translations and your explanation why you think that one is a little better than the other.

Sincerely,

Brian Costello

Seattle, Wa.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maria Ferstl
10 mins

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou: Don't forget the transliteration for Brian. :-)
19 mins

agree  Nadia-Anastasia Fahmi
7 hrs

agree  Assimina Vavoula
7 hrs

agree  Georgios Paraskevopoulos
8 hrs

agree  Konstantinos Karanikas B.Sc. Electr. Eng., MITI
9 hrs

agree  Katerina Nikopoulou: Εξαιρετική η απόδοση του Λεκατσά. // Εξαιρετική και η δεύτερη απόδοση, μετά το σημαντικό σχόλιο του Κώστα Ζαννή.
11 hrs

agree  Catherine Christaki
1 day18 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
PRO (1): Vicky Papaprodromou


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Changes made by editors
Jul 13, 2005 - Changes made by Maria Karra:
FieldOther » Art/Literary
Field (specific)Linguistics » Poetry & Literature


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