KudoZ home » English to Hebrew » Other

Domestic building

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
10:36 Aug 9, 2002
English to Hebrew translations [Non-PRO]
/ real-estate, planning, architecture
English term or phrase: Domestic building
Excerpt from a regional planning scheme (1936):
"Domestic building - means a dwelling house, or an office building, or a shop or any other building not being an out-building, a public building or an industrial building."

By the way:
תכנית מתאר is indeed an Israeli [mis]translation of the British "Planning scheme", as was pointed out in response to a previous question of mine.
issiromem
Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
5 +2kol mivneh she'aino mivneh tzibur v'aino mivneh ta'asiyatiSue Goldian
4 -1mivne beytiJohn Kinory
3 -1Mivneh Diur = מבנה דיור
liora
4 -2mivne haskarati
Simon Charass


  

Answers


4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
mivne beyti


Explanation:
מבנה ביתי

This may be a somewhat less-than-literal translation, but perhaps it captures the essence of the idea.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-09 15:11:17 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PS
By avoiding \'megurim\', I hope I have covered the aspects of (a) including offices (you can say beyt-misradim) etc; (b) excluding industrial and public buildings: the latter would be called binyan tziburi rather than bayit tziburi.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-09 15:13:25 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Industrial buildings would be called mivne ta\'asiyati, of course: again, in a roundabout way, my suggestion steers away from those types that need to be excluded.



I am not convinced that tokhnit mit\'ar is a mistranslation. It refers to \'outline plan\', AFAIK.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-11 02:18:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Liora claims that mivne beiti is a tautology. In fact, it isn\'t: the equivalent English term would be domestic structure. There is nothing remotely tautological about it.

On the other hand, you might claim that domestic building is a tautology, and you would probably be right; but that\'s the term we were asked to translate.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-18 22:17:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Reply to Liora:

First of all, please don\'t use your comment on Sue\'s answer (or anybody else\'s) to reply to me, for obvious (I hope) reasons.

Secondly, when you say

\"Apart from this, when a landlord lets an apartment, or an office, or a shop, the people who rent are always called Dayarim, what else ? So if they are Dayarim the Mivne is Diur. It is better than Mivne Beiti because Beity is not used like that in Hebrew and you know it. It is also somehow tautological\" -

That\'s simply not the case. The people who rent are called sokhrim. If they ALSO live there, they are called dayarim. People who rent an office are NOT dayarim. Therefore, it is not a mivne diyur. Mivne diyur is \'residential property\', which is certainly not what an office or industrial building is.

As to whether beyti is or isn\'t used like that in Hebrew, I hope you are not going to claim that your proof is its non-occurrence in dictionaries (in the light of your own comments below). Sue\'s answer is better than mine, but mine is shorter. And it\'s no more a tautology than \'domestic building\' is.


John Kinory
Local time: 19:15
PRO pts in pair: 43

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Yigal Gideon: youcan use the Term "mivne Mishpakhti"
23 hrs
  -> Well, no, you can't. Mishpakhti cannot apply to an office building. Please, Do read the question.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer

1 day9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Mivneh Diur = מבנה דיור


Explanation:
This is a proposal. I tried to coin the term according to context, which might be in Hebrew as follows:

מבנה דיור - בית מגורים או בנין משרדים או חנות או כל מבנה אחר שאיננו בנין עזר, בנין ציבורי או בנין תעשיה


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-10 21:09:59 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Apart from this, when a landlord lets an apartment, or an office, or a shop, the people who rent are always called Dayarim, what else ? So if they are Dayarim the Mivne is Diur. It is better than Mivne Beiti because Beity is not used like that in Hebrew and you know it. It is also somehow tautological. Certainly I would like to know what the outcome would be.
Best
Liora

liora
Israel
Local time: 21:15
Native speaker of: Native in HebrewHebrew, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  John Kinory: How can diyur apply to an office building??
32 mins
  -> Apart from this, if I have a shop or an office and I lease it, the people who rent it are called "Dayarim" in Hebrew, be they in an office, a shop or an apartment.

disagree  Sue Goldian: Diyur cannot apply to a residential building or to a shop! Definitely not.
40 mins
  -> Mivne Beiti is tautology.

agree  sofsof: Makes the most sense. As you said, anyone who rents is a "Dayar."
23 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer

2 days10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
mivne haskarati


Explanation:
or
mivne le haskara

Just to make everybody happy.

Simon Charass
Canada
Local time: 14:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Sue Goldian: Sorry, but it doesn't make me happy at all, because the original question doesn
14 hrs
  -> So you disagee?

disagree  John Kinory: There is no logical, legal, commercial or linguistic reason why the building HAS to be rented.
16 hrs

neutral  liora: sorry, and I forgot to add: first, I was just trying to coin a phrase. But as regards dictionaries, do you find the word Mefageah in ibn shooshan ? do you find the word Kochanee or Yedooan or Daatan ? Do you find the word Zoogiyoot ? The dictionary is
6 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer

3 days1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
kol mivneh she'aino mivneh tzibur v'aino mivneh ta'asiyati


Explanation:
I wasn't going to get involved with this question but I seem to have no choice, due to the comments made by some of the askers.

First of all, I have never encountered the term "domestic building" and I find the definition provided above quite strange, since none of the meanings of domestic (in all the dictionaries I consulted) seem to have anything to do with shops or office buildings. More to the point, I have never encountered a corresponding term in Hebrew, i.e. a term that covers residential homes, office buildings and shops. So my suggestion above is basically a workaround, since any made-up term would probably be misunderstood. You can play about with the wording, of course, but that's probably what I would write if I encounter that term...and I'm very glad to say I haven't because I do not like having to translate the untranslatable.

Now for a few more comments:

To Liora - look in the dictionary, Even Shoshan, for example, and you will see what I am certain you already know - dayar comes from ladur which means to live - a person who rents an office or a shop is not a dayar. Moreover, a dayar can be a houseowner, as is the case in many apartment buildings. And the matter of rental was not mentioned in the original question in any case.

There's one more point I'd like to make: When I commented on your answer, why did you reply by telling my why, in your opinion, Yoni's answer was incorrect? I never said it was.

Note to Simon
My comment got cut off in the middle, for some unfathomable Proz-related reason. What I wanted to say was that the matter of rental was not mentioned in the original question in any case.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-12 13:43:38 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

That should have been \"I wasn\'t going to get involved with this question but I seem to have no choice, due to the comments made by some of the answerers,\" not some of the askers.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-18 20:52:54 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just a continuation of my comment to Liora - even the Hebrew word for homeless uses the word dar, i.e. darei rexov. They don\'t own the street but they do live in it, which is why they\'re called darei rexov by people who prefer that term to the non-Hebrew \"homeless.\" So whatever they live in - wigwams, treehouses, houseboats, yachts, etcetera etcetera etcetera, and however they came to live there - they are dayarim because they live there. Period. And people do not live in office buildings or shops.

Sue Goldian
Local time: 21:15
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 50

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  John Kinory: Finally, someone with a bit of common sense (I include my answer in the list of nonsensical ones)
1 hr
  -> Thank you Yoni :-))

agree  Suzan: Good job, Sue :-)
4 hrs
  -> Thanks Suzan :-))

neutral  liora: hello sue, The dayarim in keymoney apartments are not apartment owners, are they ???
6 days
  -> That isn't what I said. Please read my answer again. I said that dayarim are the people who live in apartments or houses or huts or igloos or whatever else they live in. It doesn't matter whether they rent them, own them or are squatting in them.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search