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Qua

Italian translation: come, quali, in quanto fenomeni fisici

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Qua physical
Italian translation:come, quali, in quanto fenomeni fisici
Entered by: luskie
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12:31 Jun 8, 2002
English to Italian translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
English term or phrase: Qua
Optics was, in the Aristotelian scheme, considered a branch of mixed mathematics (it was "subalternate" to mathematics). That is, insofar as it studied light as propagated in straight lines, it studied it "qua physical," not "qua mathematical." The principles governing straight lines come from mathematics, but in optics they are applied to a natural or physical subject matter (light).

"quale cosa fisica" ?
Il mio latino è molto peggio che arrugginito (posto che sia effettivamente latino :)))

Grazie in adv
luskie
Local time: 12:17
in quanto fenomeni fisici
Explanation:
Si tratta di una parafrasi del famoso incipit del Libro II (1-2) della Fisica di Aristotele. Te lo riporto in inglese:

"Similar evidence is supplied by the more physical of the branches of mathematics, such as optics, harmonics, and astronomy. These are in a way the converse of geometry. While geometry investigates physical lines but not qua physical, optics investigates mathematical lines, but qua physical, not qua mathematical."


Selected response from:

Laura Gentili
Italy
Local time: 12:17
Grading comment
Grazie, anche a tutti gli altri. Anzi, aggiungo 4 punti virtuali per Tankuki (mi ha confermato che un minimissimo di latino me lo ricordo :) e 4 per Gmel (che lavoro!). E, incredibile dictu, vi comunico la traduzione italiana di questo importante stralcio della Fisica di Aristotile non è presente in rete :-0
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +7come, in quantogabs72
4 +2.... la luce........ veniva studiata nell'ambito della fisica e non della matematica.
Massimo Gaido
4 +2in quanto fenomeni fisici
Laura Gentili
4 +2in termini didavidholme
5in vestexxxTanuki
4Vd sottogmel117608


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
in termini di


Explanation:
...



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Note added at 2002-06-08 12:46:35 (GMT)
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\"in quanto\"

Physical motions qua physics may be reversible but many
ecological events qua ecology are not.
http://www.film-philosophy.com/vol1-1997/n2large

Although the ACIP does not recommend that food handlers be vaccinated qua food handlers,
there is a wishy-washy acknowledgment that \"consideration may be given ...
http://www.ohd.hr.state.or.us/cdsum/1997/ohd4603.pdf

davidholme
Local time: 11:17
PRO pts in pair: 38

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxTanuki
1 hr
  -> grazie

agree  gmel117608
1 hr
  -> grazie
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
come, in quanto


Explanation:
Era studiata come parte della matematica e non della fisica (se ho capito bene la tua nota in aggiunta).

Ciao

gabs72
Italy
Local time: 12:17
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 153

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  davidholme
2 mins
  -> Grazie di nuovo

agree  Stefano Rosso
8 mins
  -> Thanks

agree  xxxTanuki
1 hr
  -> grazie

agree  ogdc
2 hrs
  -> Grazieee

agree  biancaf202
3 hrs
  -> Ti ringrazio, Bianca

agree  gmel117608
3 hrs
  -> Grazzzzz...!

agree  Nicola (Mr.) Nobili
2 days1 hr
  -> Ti ringrazio!!!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
in quanto fenomeni fisici


Explanation:
Si tratta di una parafrasi del famoso incipit del Libro II (1-2) della Fisica di Aristotele. Te lo riporto in inglese:

"Similar evidence is supplied by the more physical of the branches of mathematics, such as optics, harmonics, and astronomy. These are in a way the converse of geometry. While geometry investigates physical lines but not qua physical, optics investigates mathematical lines, but qua physical, not qua mathematical."




Laura Gentili
Italy
Local time: 12:17
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 4975
Grading comment
Grazie, anche a tutti gli altri. Anzi, aggiungo 4 punti virtuali per Tankuki (mi ha confermato che un minimissimo di latino me lo ricordo :) e 4 per Gmel (che lavoro!). E, incredibile dictu, vi comunico la traduzione italiana di questo importante stralcio della Fisica di Aristotile non è presente in rete :-0

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxTanuki
1 hr

agree  gmel117608
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
.... la luce........ veniva studiata nell'ambito della fisica e non della matematica.


Explanation:
.... la luce........ veniva studiata quale fenomeno fisico e non matematico.

Ciao,
M.

Massimo Gaido
United States
Local time: 05:17
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 2303

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxTanuki
52 mins

agree  gmel117608
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
in veste


Explanation:
in alternativa a quanto già proposto.

In veste è un possibile traducente di "capacity".

Qua significa "in the capacity of"; "as being".

[Ablativo Femminile singolare di
Qui->who]

xxxTanuki
PRO pts in pair: 582
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Vd sotto


Explanation:

Concordo con gli altri. Aggiungo rapidissimamanete alcuni traducenti e siti che forse di ti possono essere d'aiuto:

-------------------------
Qua latino
qua, avv.
1 (relat.) per dove, da dove, dove, per la parte o dalla parte in cui
2 (correl., qua qua) tanto quanto, così come, sia sia, da una parte dall'altra
3 in quanto, per quanto
4 (indef.) in qualche modo
5 (interr.) in quale modo?, come?, per dove?

--------------------------------

Qua, (Latin). Considered as; in the capacity or character of; as far as; as.


-------------------------------------
Aristotle, Physics, Book II: 1-2
1

Of things that exist, some exist by nature, some from other causes.

'By nature' the animals and their parts exist, and the plants and the simple bodies (earth, fire, air, water)-for we say that these and the like exist 'by nature'.

All the things mentioned present a feature in which they differ from things which are not constituted by nature. Each of them has within itself a principle of motion and of stationariness (in respect of place, or of growth and decrease, or by way of alteration). On the other hand, a bed and a coat and anything else of that sort, qua receiving these designations i.e. in so far as they are products of art-have no innate impulse to change. But in so far as they happen to be composed of stone or of earth or of a mixture of the two, they do have such an impulse, and just to that extent which seems to indicate that nature is a source or cause of being moved and of being at rest in that to which it belongs primarily, in virtue of itself and not in virtue of a concomitant attribute.

I say 'not in virtue of a concomitant attribute', because (for instance) a man who is a doctor might cure himself. Nevertheless it is not in so far as he is a patient that he possesses the art of medicine: it merely has happened that the same man is doctor and patient-and that is why these attributes are not always found together. So it is with all other artificial products. None of them has in itself the source of its own production. But while in some cases (for instance houses and the other products of manual labour) that principle is in something else external to the thing, in others those which may cause a change in themselves in virtue of a concomitant attribute-it lies in the things themselves (but not in virtue of what they are).

'Nature' then is what has been stated. Things 'have a nature' which have a principle of this kind. Each of them is a substance; for it is a subject, and nature always implies a subject in which it inheres.

The term 'according to nature' is applied to all these things and also to the attributes which belong to them in virtue of what they are, for instance the property of fire to be carried upwards-which is not a 'nature' nor 'has a nature' but is 'by nature' or 'according to nature'.

What nature is, then, and the meaning of the terms 'by nature' and 'according to nature', has been stated. That nature exists, it would be absurd to try to prove; for it is obvious that there are many things of this kind, and to prove what is obvious by what is not is the mark of a man who is unable to distinguish what is self-evident from what is not. (This state of mind is clearly possible. A man blind from birth might reason about colours. Presumably therefore such persons must be talking about words without any thought to correspond.)

Some identify the nature or substance of a natural object with that immediate constituent of it which taken by itself is without arrangement, e.g. the wood is the 'nature' of the bed, and the bronze the 'nature' of the statue.

As an indication of this Antiphon points out that if you planted a bed and the rotting wood acquired the power of sending up a shoot, it would not be a bed that would come up, but wood-which shows that the arrangement in accordance with the rules of the art is merely an incidental attribute, whereas the real nature is the other, which, further, persists continuously through the process of making.

But if the material of each of these objects has itself the same relation to something else, say bronze (or gold) to water, bones (or wood) to earth and so on, that (they say) would be their nature and essence. Consequently some assert earth, others fire or air or water or some or all of these, to be the nature of the things that are. For whatever any one of them supposed to have this character-whether one thing or more than one thing-this or these he declared to be the whole of substance, all else being its affections, states, or dispositions. Every such thing they held to be eternal (for it could not pass into anything else), but other things to come into being and cease to be times without number.

This then is one account of 'nature', namely that it is the immediate material substratum of things which have in themselves a principle of motion or change.

Another account is that 'nature' is the shape or form which is specified in the definition of the thing.

For the word 'nature' is applied to what is according to nature and the natural in the same way as 'art' is applied to what is artistic or a work of art. We should not say in the latter case that there is anything artistic about a thing, if it is a bed only potentially, not yet having the form of a bed; nor should we call it a work of art. The same is true of natural compounds. What is potentially flesh or bone has not yet its own 'nature', and does not exist until it receives the form specified in the definition, which we name in defining what flesh or bone is. Thus in the second sense of 'nature' it would be the shape or form (not separable except in statement) of things which have in themselves a source of motion. (The combination of the two, e.g. man, is not 'nature' but 'by nature' or 'natural'.)

The form indeed is 'nature' rather than the matter; for a thing is more properly said to be what it is when it has attained to fulfilment than when it exists potentially. Again man is born from man, but not bed from bed. That is why people say that the figure is not the nature of a bed, but the wood is-if the bed sprouted not a bed but wood would come up. But even if the figure is art, then on the same principle the shape of man is his nature. For man is born from man.

We also speak of a thing's nature as being exhibited in the process of growth by which its nature is attained. The 'nature' in this sense is not like 'doctoring', which leads not to the art of doctoring but to health. Doctoring must start from the art, not lead to it. But it is not in this way that nature (in the one sense) is related to nature (in the other). What grows qua growing grows from something into something. Into what then does it grow? Not into that from which it arose but into that to which it tends. The shape then is nature.

'Shape' and 'nature', it should be added, are in two senses. For the privation too is in a way form. But whether in unqualified coming to be there is privation, i.e. a contrary to what comes to be, we must consider later.
2
We have distinguished, then, the different ways in which the term 'nature' is used.

The next point to consider is how the mathematician differs from the physicist. Obviously physical bodies contain surfaces and volumes, lines and points, and these are the subject-matter of mathematics.

Further, is astronomy different from physics or a department of it? It seems absurd that the physicist should be supposed to know the nature of sun or moon, but not to know any of their essential attributes, particularly as the writers on physics obviously do discuss their shape also and whether the earth and the world are spherical or not.

Now the mathematician, though he too treats of these things, nevertheless does not treat of them as the limits of a physical body; nor does he consider the attributes indicated as the attributes of such bodies. That is why he separates them; for in thought they are separable from motion, and it makes no difference, nor does any falsity result, if they are separated. The holders of the theory of Forms do the same, though they are not aware of it; for they separate the objects of physics, which are less separable than those of mathematics. This becomes plain if one tries to state in each of the two cases the definitions of the things and of their attributes. 'Odd' and 'even', 'straight' and 'curved', and likewise 'number', 'line', and 'figure', do not involve motion; not so 'flesh' and 'bone' and 'man'-these are defined like 'snub nose', not like 'curved'.

Similar evidence is supplied by the more physical of the branches of mathematics, such as optics, harmonics, and astronomy. These are in a way the converse of geometry. While geometry investigates physical lines but not qua physical, optics investigates mathematical lines, but qua physical, not qua mathematical.

Since 'nature' has two senses, the form and the matter, we must investigate its objects as we would the essence of snubness. That is, such things are neither independent of matter nor can be defined in terms of matter only. Here too indeed one might raise a difficulty. Since there are two natures, with which is the physicist concerned? Or should he investigate the combination of the two? But if the combination of the two, then also each severally. Does it belong then to the same or to different sciences to know each severally?

If we look at the ancients, physics would to be concerned with the matter. (It was only very slightly that Empedocles and Democritus touched on the forms and the essence.)

But if on the other hand art imitates nature, and it is the part of the same discipline to know the form and the matter up to a point (e.g. the doctor has a knowledge of health and also of bile and phlegm, in which health is realized, and the builder both of the form of the house and of the matter, namely that it is bricks and beams, and so forth): if this is so, it would be the part of physics also to know nature in both its senses.

Again, 'that for the sake of which', or the end, belongs to the same department of knowledge as the means. But the nature is the end or 'that for the sake of which'. For if a thing undergoes a continuous change and there is a stage which is last, this stage is the end or 'that for the sake of which'. (That is why the poet was carried away into making an absurd statement when he said 'he has the end for the sake of which he was born'. For not every stage that is last claims to be an end, but only that which is best.)

For the arts make their material (some simply 'make' it, others make it serviceable), and we use everything as if it was there for our sake. (We also are in a sense an end. 'That for the sake of which' has two senses: the distinction is made in our work On Philosophy.) The arts, therefore, which govern the matter and have knowledge are two, namely the art which uses the product and the art which directs the production of it. That is why the using art also is in a sense directive; but it differs in that it knows the form, whereas the art which is directive as being concerned with production knows the matter. For the helmsman knows and prescribes what sort of form a helm should have, the other from what wood it should be made and by means of what operations. In the products of art, however, we make the material with a view to the function, whereas in the products of nature the matter is there all along.

Again, matter is a relative term: to each form there corresponds a special matter. How far then must the physicist know the form or essence? Up to a point, perhaps, as the doctor must know sinew or the smith bronze (i.e. until he understands the purpose of each): and the physicist is concerned only with things whose forms are separable indeed, but do not exist apart from matter. Man is begotten by man and by the sun as well. The mode of existence and essence of the separable it is the business of the primary type of philosophy to define.

----------------------------------------

Siti Utili

www.google.co.uk

search in the web qua + mathematical:

sci.physics.research 2002-04 Threads
... related to basic qua (0), Charles Francis; Re: Simple question related to basic qua ... Re:
A simple question (0), Jim Carr; This Week's Finds in Mathematical Physic ...
www.lns.cornell.edu/spr/2002-04/threads.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

sci.physics.research 2002-04 Index
... question related to basic qua, Garfunkel; Re: some problems about the two-slit exp,
Jim Carr; Re: A simple question, Jim Carr; This Week's Finds in Mathematical ...
www.lns.cornell.edu/spr/2002-04/ - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.lns.cornell.edu ]

QUA.SI. - Fuzzy Simulation
... as an extension, not an alternative, to the classical, quantitative, mathematical ... methodology
we adopted to design and implement the Qualitative Simulators Qua ...
www.elet.polimi.it/section/compeng/ air/fuzzy/f_simulation/Qua.si/ - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

Classroom Practices
... proficiency in the language in which they are assessed and also in degree of bilingualism
when that language proficiency is assessed qua mathematical language. ...
www.ncbe.gwu.edu/pathways/smt/class.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Glossary, Qua - Monetary theory of the trade cycle
... Q. Qua, (Latin). ... The theories of "Mathematical economists" based on the idea that
there are constant relations in the sphere of human actions that can be ...
www.mises.org/easier/Q.asp - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

On the mathematical relationship between the number of events in ...
... These are two very different figures which have different mathematical
properties. ... Res Qua Exerc Spt 1987; 58: 221-8. Kelly MJ. ...
home.clara.net/sisa/paper3.htm - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Aristotle, Physics, Book II, 1-2
... While geometry investigates physical lines but not qua physical, optics investigates
mathematical lines, but qua physical, not qua mathematical. ...
www.augustana.ab.ca/~janzb/phi200docs/ariphysII1-2.htm - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

FOM: reply to the "list 2" crowd
... 2" mind-set has no merit, because the additional concepts ("list 2": cohomology,
projective analytic variety, et cetera) are far from basic qua mathematical ...
www.math.psu.edu/simpson/fom/ postings/9801/msg00177.html - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

================================================================ ...
... First, what about mathematical "truth"? Under the correspondence idea of truth,
mathematical statements qua mathematical statements cannot be "true". ...
www.openthought.org/summa/axioms01.html - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Jacques Maritain Center: CDK Index (M)
... animal 15/24.16S man qua political animal 15/24.17S man qua ... materialism 14/01.06S
dialectical materialism 14/17.06S dialectical materialism MATHEMATICAL 1/09 F ...
www.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/cdk-m.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages







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Note added at 2002-06-08 14:32:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Scusa Luskie: mi sono dimenticato di salutarti il febbrone (il medico mi ha detto che è un\'infezione virale, ma io non ci credo) mi fa dei brutti scherzi.

Buon lavoro

Giuseppe (Melecci)


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-08 14:32:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Scusa Luskie: mi sono dimenticato di salutarti il febbrone (il medico mi ha detto che è un\'infezione virale, ma io non ci credo) mi fa dei brutti scherzi.

Buon lavoro

Giuseppe (Melecci)


gmel117608
Local time: 11:17
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in pair: 126
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