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there be ghosts and accidents / stabbing

Italian translation: vedi sotto per favore

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17:18 Apr 7, 2004
English to Italian translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase: there be ghosts and accidents / stabbing
I was speeding over the Altamont Pass (where there be ghosts and accidents; it is the ground upon which the stabbing happened at the Rolling Stones concert, after Woodstock)...

non capisco il verbo e quel "ghosts"... lo lascio "fantasmi"? stabbing sarebbe accoltellamento? forse qualcuno si ricorda il fatto, io sono troppo giovane.

grazie
Laura Bordignon
Local time: 17:24
Italian translation:vedi sotto per favore
Explanation:
sull'accoltellamento:

Filmmakers Albert Maysles and David Maysles concentrated their fly-on-the-wall cameras on the Stones' most fateful gig: the 1969 free concert at California's Altamont Speedway. To maintain crowd control, the Stones made the fatal error of engaging the services of the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang. The chaotic results included the fatal stabbing of a spectator, which was recorded on film and which is repeated several times herein as a depressing leitmotif. This vignette, along with scads of profanity, originally earned Gimme Shelter an R rating. The PG version available to television still retains a great deal of bite, as well as such musical highlights as "Satisfaction", "Sympathy for the Devil" and "Under My Thumb." ~ Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide

su Altamont Pass, concerto storico dopo Woodstock:
As the Beatles' final chapters were being written, the Stones shifted into high gear. If the former group expressed the heady idealism of the Sixties, the Stones were, by contrast, hardened realists whose music provided a kind of survival tonic for the embattled counterculture. And it was the Stones to whom the baton passed as the Sixties gave way to the Seventies. In fact, the Rolling Stones staged another free concert - at Altamont Speedway outside San Francisco on December 6, 1969, barely three months after Woodstock - that symbolically and literally marked the end the Sixties. A violence-prone, drugged-out, daylong nightmare marked by the stabbing death of a concert attendee by Hell's Angels, Altamont was forever captured and preserved in the unnerving film documentary Gimme Shelter.

in questo contesto non prenderei ghost letteralmente, ma figurativamente, forse le ombre di personaggi famosi come i Rolling Stones, oppure la presenza ancora viva, oppure che ancora aleggiava, mentre il ferimento dello spettatore 'e reale

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Note added at 21 hrs 51 mins (2004-04-08 15:10:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Vorrei aggiungere che ad Altomont non ci fu solo un accoltellamento ma molti altri incidenti. Per la cronaca completa vedi questo sito:
http://www.echoes.com/rememberaday/altamont.html

Riparlerei di fantasmi e di incidenti
Selected response from:

CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 11:24
Grading comment
grazie
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +3vedi sotto per favore
CLS Lexi-tech
4 +1dove aleggia ancora l'ombra di un incidente fatale: lì ebbe luogo il famigerato accoltellamento...xxxtr.
3 +1ci saranno fantasmi e disgrazie
Dinny
4v.s.giogi


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ci saranno fantasmi e disgrazie


Explanation:
dello stabbing ... avrei l'età :-) ... ma non ero a Woodstock! Sigh!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2004-04-07 17:42:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Curiosando in internet per sapere di questo - evidentemente - famoso \"stabbing\" ho trovato questo sul sito di barnesandnoble:

Reviews
From Barnes & Noble
The rock movie\'s very own Zapruder film, Gimme Shelter stands today as a landmark portrait of a band and a generation that changed the stakes between the two camps forever. What starts as an electrifying document of the Rolling Stones\' performances on their fiery 1969 American tour switches to an inquiry into the satanic Altamont concert where Hell\'s Angels -- hired by the group itself -- effectively stomped out the last shreds of \'60s Utopia. Obviously, the Stones had no idea what was to happen at Altamont when they hired directors David Maysles, Albert Maysles, and Charlotte Zwerin. They simply didn\'t like how they looked a year earlier when Jean-Luc Godard showed them creating, and seemingly never finishing, \"Sympathy for the Devil,\" in his lethargic, hypnotic same-titled film. The Maysleses and Zwerin fulfill their obligation to catch the fervor and brilliance of live Stones shows -- particularly in songs like \"Honky Tonk Women\" and \"Street Fighting Man.\" They also, in the process, happen to catch a fan being stabbed in a crowd, footage that they then run past singer Mick Jagger. This snippet makes Gimme Shelter cut deeper than any rock documentary: Jagger\'s bitter expression as he shakes his head at his own arrogance and naivete is a remarkable moment. Bouncing between the band\'s debauched tour lifestyle (including a shaggy, funny session mixing \"Wild Horses\") and the fateful, ultraviolent California show, Gimme Shelter lets it all hang out. This 30th Anniversary DVD edition boasts a new, loud DTS version of the soundtrack, deleted scenes and radio excerpts from the live KSAN broadcast of the four-hour show, as well as a booklet of essays on both the tour and the cultural climate of the 1960s. This is a documentary and a document that is truly worthy of such elaborate treatment. Eddy Crouse



Dinny
Greece
Local time: 18:24
Native speaker of: Danish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  giogi
12 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
dove aleggia ancora l'ombra di un incidente fatale: lì ebbe luogo il famigerato accoltellamento...


Explanation:
... oppure: fu qui (infatti) che avvenne l'accoltellamento...

"famigerato" l'ho aggiunto tanto per enfasi, ma non so se ci sta tanto bene...

Vedi tu come renderla meglio! comunque, come hanno suggerito gli altri, non proprio letteralmente.

L'espressione "there be ghosts" è più o meno una specie di variante del "here be dragons":

http://www.nonfictionreviews.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&articl...

"Here Be Dragons" was a phrase used by cartographers of old to denote unexplained portions of the Earth on their maps.

e qui:
http://www.sun.rhbnc.ac.uk/Music/Conferences/99-4-hbd.html
When medieval cartographers reached the limits of knowledge with regard to
the territory they were mapping they wrote "Here be Dragons" on the
terrain beyond. It announced the unknown and in some ways the unimaginable
with a mix of fear and fascination.


- l'ho sentita spesso usata in senso metaforico (anche ironico, a volte) per riferirsi a un posto che ha qualcosa di minaccioso... anche "there be monsters" e simili...

C'è anche una raccolta di racconti di fantasmi che si intitola "Here there be ghosts" - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0152015663/ref=nosim/...

Qui "ghost" può anche riferirsi direttamente alla vittima dell'accoltellamento, ma credo sia più in senso generale, il fantasma di quell'incidente che aleggia sul posto.

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Note added at 2004-04-08 12:53:50 (GMT)
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... per chiarire: non so esattamente l\'origine del motivo per cui il verbo è lasciato all\'infinito (insomma, \"be\" invece di \"are\") ma quell\'espressione tipo \"there be dragons/monsters/ghosts\" è presa da una forma antica e l\'ho sempre sentita così, con il \"be\"...


xxxtr.
Local time: 17:24
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  giogi
37 mins
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
v.s.


Explanation:
There be dragons...Hic sunt Leones sulle antiche carte geografiche...oltre le colonne d'Ercole o nelle terre sconosciute...
Certo è ripreso da queto...Come dire che era un luogo misterioso popolato da spiriti....per il resto d'accordo con tutti gli altri
Ciao

giogi
Local time: 16:24
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 60
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
vedi sotto per favore


Explanation:
sull'accoltellamento:

Filmmakers Albert Maysles and David Maysles concentrated their fly-on-the-wall cameras on the Stones' most fateful gig: the 1969 free concert at California's Altamont Speedway. To maintain crowd control, the Stones made the fatal error of engaging the services of the Hell's Angels motorcycle gang. The chaotic results included the fatal stabbing of a spectator, which was recorded on film and which is repeated several times herein as a depressing leitmotif. This vignette, along with scads of profanity, originally earned Gimme Shelter an R rating. The PG version available to television still retains a great deal of bite, as well as such musical highlights as "Satisfaction", "Sympathy for the Devil" and "Under My Thumb." ~ Hal Erickson, All Movie Guide

su Altamont Pass, concerto storico dopo Woodstock:
As the Beatles' final chapters were being written, the Stones shifted into high gear. If the former group expressed the heady idealism of the Sixties, the Stones were, by contrast, hardened realists whose music provided a kind of survival tonic for the embattled counterculture. And it was the Stones to whom the baton passed as the Sixties gave way to the Seventies. In fact, the Rolling Stones staged another free concert - at Altamont Speedway outside San Francisco on December 6, 1969, barely three months after Woodstock - that symbolically and literally marked the end the Sixties. A violence-prone, drugged-out, daylong nightmare marked by the stabbing death of a concert attendee by Hell's Angels, Altamont was forever captured and preserved in the unnerving film documentary Gimme Shelter.

in questo contesto non prenderei ghost letteralmente, ma figurativamente, forse le ombre di personaggi famosi come i Rolling Stones, oppure la presenza ancora viva, oppure che ancora aleggiava, mentre il ferimento dello spettatore 'e reale

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs 51 mins (2004-04-08 15:10:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Vorrei aggiungere che ad Altomont non ci fu solo un accoltellamento ma molti altri incidenti. Per la cronaca completa vedi questo sito:
http://www.echoes.com/rememberaday/altamont.html

Riparlerei di fantasmi e di incidenti

CLS Lexi-tech
Local time: 11:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 15
Grading comment
grazie

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  giogi
12 hrs

agree  VERTERE
13 hrs

agree  xxxtr.
18 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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