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make our bones

Japanese translation: まだ一人前になってない、尻が青い

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:make our bones
Japanese translation:まだ一人前になってない、尻が青い
Entered by: jackamano
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14:13 Apr 1, 2008
English to Japanese translations [Non-PRO]
Science - Environment & Ecology
English term or phrase: make our bones
Keep in mind that 90% of all species that have ever lived on our Planet are now extinct, and as the new kids on the block, we humans have yet to *"make our bones"* as they say in the mobster movies.

文脈からして意味は恐らく、「くちばしの黄色い」といった感じかな、と想像しているのですが、確信が持てません。as they say in the mobster moviesとあるので、何か決まった言い方があるのでしょうか
jackamano
Japan
Local time: 04:49
まだ一人前になってない、尻が青い
Explanation:
It has nothing to do with "make no bones about ~".
Human beings are one of the newest life forms on our planet. Dinosaurs and many other species were already extinct long before we got here - therefore, humans are the "new kids on the block," the new arrivals to the planet.
So as part of the remaining 10% of not (yet) extinct species, we are still so 'new' (比較的) that we have not yet 'made our bones'.

Actually, I don't think that 'make (one's) bones' is the best use of metaphor by the author here, but I think s/he was also trying to make a bit of a pun about 'bones' (ie. extinct dinosaur bones, etc.)

The use of 'make (one's) bones' by mobsters, mafia, etc. refers to the act of 'initiation' to become a full member of the gang, a full 一人前, when they murder someone (hence the bones...).
Some explanations of the origin of this expression can be found here:
http://koehlerville.blogspot.com/2007/10/becoming-made-man.h...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=made my bones
1. made my bones
To earn respect in the Mafia underworld by commiting some sort of crime, usually murder.
Selected response from:

KathyT
Australia
Local time: 05:49
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your help, KathyT-san. You've helped me time and again.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1まだ一人前になってない、尻が青い
KathyT
4 +1屍(しかばね)を横たえる
humbird
3根絶やし (たがいに殺しあう、抹殺する)
MT_S


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
屍(しかばね)を横たえる


Explanation:
***90% of all species that have ever lived on our Planet are now extinct,*** に対する表現です。
それだけ絶滅してしまった、人間もいずれそうなるだろうが、まだそこまではいっていないということです。なお"Make no bones (about ...)" という決まり文句があります。意味はこちらをご覧下さい。

http://eow.alc.co.jp/make no bone /UTF-8/

たぶんそれをもじったものとも思われますが、つながりはこの文脈からではよくわかりません。

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your help, humbird-san. For this time, however, I'd like to opt for KathyT-san's opinion. Please see my notes for MN-TRN-san. Thank you again for your efforts.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MT_S: please see my note. I believe that you should have another better word to describe that. have a great day.
1 day9 hrs
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
まだ一人前になってない、尻が青い


Explanation:
It has nothing to do with "make no bones about ~".
Human beings are one of the newest life forms on our planet. Dinosaurs and many other species were already extinct long before we got here - therefore, humans are the "new kids on the block," the new arrivals to the planet.
So as part of the remaining 10% of not (yet) extinct species, we are still so 'new' (比較的) that we have not yet 'made our bones'.

Actually, I don't think that 'make (one's) bones' is the best use of metaphor by the author here, but I think s/he was also trying to make a bit of a pun about 'bones' (ie. extinct dinosaur bones, etc.)

The use of 'make (one's) bones' by mobsters, mafia, etc. refers to the act of 'initiation' to become a full member of the gang, a full 一人前, when they murder someone (hence the bones...).
Some explanations of the origin of this expression can be found here:
http://koehlerville.blogspot.com/2007/10/becoming-made-man.h...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=made my bones
1. made my bones
To earn respect in the Mafia underworld by commiting some sort of crime, usually murder.

KathyT
Australia
Local time: 05:49
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your help, KathyT-san. You've helped me time and again.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  RieM: 「人間の軌跡なんて、ないも同然よ」のような意味でしょうね。  http://spaceinfo.jaxa.jp/ja/timeline_history.html   
2 hrs
  -> Yes, exactly. Thanks, Rie-san :-)

neutral  humbird: Hi Kathy, you got a point here. One thing is wrong. I said this could be a pun of "'make no bones about', but without furhter context ...". Read what I said before jump into any comment.
11 hrs
  -> With or without further context, it is unrelated to 'make no bones about,' imho. I stand by my comment.
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
根絶やし (たがいに殺しあう、抹殺する)


Explanation:
医療関連の翻訳ということで、遺伝や種の保存等に関連するものと解釈します。

後述の“ギャング映画で語られるような”という文章から、シマをとりあう争いや戦いのなかから骨しかのこらないような“根絶やし”の、壮絶な生存競争をあらわしていると思います。
(根絶やし=家系などの系を後世に残さぬように完全に断絶すること)





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2008-04-02 06:33:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

もっと簡単に訳すなら、

自分たちの骨を作ることはない=共存共栄できている。

これだと後の文章にもつながると思います。いかがでしょうか?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-04-02 11:10:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

地球の歴史より新しい種は古い種が絶滅したあとに生まれていることから、どうみてもここでのギャングが肉食恐竜にみえてしまいます(血まみれの生存競争)。気分をかえて明日もう一回調べてみます。以下参考までに。

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zu5k-okd/house.6/bace/saterite/G...

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:BIF4Z23AMvwJ:cosmic.rik...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day10 hrs (2008-04-03 00:29:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

原文から考察する限り、なぜ常に新種が適応できるのかを述べているものであり、この文章での“mobster”は旧種にみられる“絶滅に起因するもの”を意味していると考えて問題ないと思います(同時に反対語としてKidsが引用されています)。そして旧種のなかで語られるmake our bonesが仮に一人前になるものと解釈する場合、それは“進化”ではなく“退化”を意味します。

そのためhumbird氏が提案されている広義の意味での“殺し合い”であれば旧種がなぜ滅んでしまったか、それを説明する次の文章へも自然につながります。make our bonesを熟語として提案されているKathyT氏の訳文であれば、この点において少し矛盾が生じます(逆説の逆説ではなく、単なる否定で十分です。お二人が指摘されている通り、むしろ熟語として引用しようとしているこの英文に少々問題があると思います)

いかがでしょうか?


MT_S
Local time: 07:49
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
Notes to answerer
Asker: すみません。ジャンル設定を元のままにしてしまったようです。テーマは「惑星Xの接近に伴い地球環境が大変動する」というものです。「宇宙」か「環境」とすべきだったかもしれません。 「種の保存」という意味ではご明察どおりと言えますが。

Asker: 惑星Xの接近を「進化の過程の一つの事件と捉えた章です」 Unlike Creationism, Darvinism and Catastrophism, which help explain why new species propser, the three tests of evolution tell us why old species fail (ここで表記の英文が入ります) In this new unified theory, we presume that every living organism must pass the following three tests: Purpose, time and cataclysm.

Asker: 色々とお調べいただき、ありがとうございます。原文をすべて書き込めれば゙良いのですが、少し長すぎますので、代わりに要約してお伝えします。ここでの小見出しはThree Tests of Evolutionとなっておりまして、生物は「目的」「時間」「地殻変動」の3つの試練を受ける必要があるとして、人類は過去「地殻変動」は経験していて、これは生き抜いている。残りの「目的」と「時間」の試練を受けるのは、今回の惑星Xの大接近がはじめてのこととなる。この試練を生き抜ければ進歩の新たな段階に進める、といった論調です。従いまして、私としては、今のところKathyTさんのご意見が一番フィットするように思われますが、色々お骨折りいただき、本当にありがとうございます。

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Changes made by editors
Apr 2, 2008 - Changes made by KathyT:
FieldMedical » Science
Field (specific)Medical (general) » Environment & Ecology


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