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文法に関する質問

Japanese translation: 大きな

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23:32 Mar 2, 2004
English to Japanese translations [PRO]
Linguistics
English term or phrase: 文法に関する質問
I am reviewing a text, and where the English says "many large loops", the Japanese says "多数の大きいループ".
This is a programming text, so loops refers to while loops, etc. in a program.

My question is: why is it 大きいループ and not 大きなループ?
Is it correct this way?
Katalin Horváth McClure
United States
Local time: 11:29
Japanese translation:大きな
Explanation:
大きい and 大きな are the same. (I personally prefer 大きな in this context). The grammer taught in Japan explains 大きな is a 連体詞 and 大きい is a 形容詞. (There is a historical explanation behind it, bit too hard to explain here.) The same thing applies to 小さな and 小さい. Hope this helps.

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Note added at 22 hrs 32 mins (2004-03-03 22:05:07 GMT)
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I just noticed my spelling mistake. Of course, grammer is supposed to be grammar. Sorry!
I agree to Susan that it is not that important to know the grammatical terms like 連体詞 and 形容詞, but this difference does explain the very point Susan was trying to make. 連体詞 needs a noun afterwards, but 形容詞 can be used at the end of a sentence. Other than that, I don¥'t think there is much difference in meaning.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs 33 mins (2004-03-03 22:06:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I just noticed my spelling mistake. Of course, grammer is supposed to be grammar. Sorry!
I agree to Susan that it is not that important to know the grammatical terms like 連体詞 and 形容詞, but this difference does explain the very point Susan was trying to make. 連体詞 needs a noun afterwards, but 形容詞 can be used at the end of a sentence. Other than that, I don¥'t think there is much difference in meaning.
Selected response from:

Mariko Kobayashi
Australia
Local time: 01:29
Grading comment
Thank you very much for the explanation. I was taught Japanese in Japan by native Japanese teachers, and they were very strict regarding grammar. I remember 連体詞 and 形容詞, and that's why I was confused seeing 大きい here. I would have written 大きな.
Since the person wrote it is a native Japanese, I thought maybe I remembered wrong. Thanks for reassuring me.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2大きな
Mariko Kobayashi
5Doesn't matter in this case
humbird
4Not big differencexxxjsl
2大きいの方が好ましいのではHiromasa Funaki


  

Answers


25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Not big difference


Explanation:
As a teacher of Japanese, I would teach that there is not a big difference between "大きい" and "大きな", although, of course, there are small differences. There is a historical reason why we have "大きい" and "大きな". The detailed information is found in the following sites:



    Reference: http://home.alc.co.jp/db/owa/jpn_npa?stage=2&sn=109
    Reference: http://www.iwanami.co.jp/hensyu/sin/sin_toku/tku02090.html
xxxjsl
Local time: 00:29
PRO pts in category: 4
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38 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
文法に関する質問
Doesn't matter in this case


Explanation:
大きな、大きい both are adjectives, thereby both are followed immediately by common nouns. Your example is case in point. However difference is still found. The latter can be independent in a sentence like 「わあ、大きい!(Wah, ookii!)」whereas「わあ、大きな!((Wah, ookina!)」is gramatically incorrect. To explain this further, in exclamation sentence you cannot use the former. Please compare this with "Wow, how big!" as opposed to "Wow, what a big loop!". In the latter what is big is explained, whereas the former the stuff is agreed among the talkers. This is the difference between Ookii and Ookina.
Happy translating!!

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Note added at 49 mins (2004-03-03 00:21:49 GMT)
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I was forgetting about 連体詞 as I am here (USA) too long. However, that argument cuold be too cumbersome especially for translation purpose. Moreover, if I am teaching Japanese I would gladly skip that kind of stuff.

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
文法に関する質問
大きいの方が好ましいのでは


Explanation:
私の英語力では説明しきれそうにもないので日本語で。

「大きな」という表現は、大小の判断基準があいまいかつ主観的であるという感じを受けます。
「大きい」という表現は大小の判断基準が明確であり、断定的だという感じを受けます。
large roopとsmall roopの二者択一であれば判断基準が明確なので「大きいループ」「小さいループ」の方が適当ではないかと私には思えます。


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Note added at 2 hrs 47 mins (2004-03-03 02:19:52 GMT)
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文字化け・・・という表¥現

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Note added at 2 hrs 51 mins (2004-03-03 02:24:00 GMT)
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いずれにしても重大な差異はありませんが・・・

Hiromasa Funaki
Japan
Local time: 00:29
Native speaker of: Japanese
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
文法に関する質問
大きな


Explanation:
大きい and 大きな are the same. (I personally prefer 大きな in this context). The grammer taught in Japan explains 大きな is a 連体詞 and 大きい is a 形容詞. (There is a historical explanation behind it, bit too hard to explain here.) The same thing applies to 小さな and 小さい. Hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs 32 mins (2004-03-03 22:05:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I just noticed my spelling mistake. Of course, grammer is supposed to be grammar. Sorry!
I agree to Susan that it is not that important to know the grammatical terms like 連体詞 and 形容詞, but this difference does explain the very point Susan was trying to make. 連体詞 needs a noun afterwards, but 形容詞 can be used at the end of a sentence. Other than that, I don¥'t think there is much difference in meaning.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs 33 mins (2004-03-03 22:06:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I just noticed my spelling mistake. Of course, grammer is supposed to be grammar. Sorry!
I agree to Susan that it is not that important to know the grammatical terms like 連体詞 and 形容詞, but this difference does explain the very point Susan was trying to make. 連体詞 needs a noun afterwards, but 形容詞 can be used at the end of a sentence. Other than that, I don¥'t think there is much difference in meaning.

Mariko Kobayashi
Australia
Local time: 01:29
Native speaker of: Japanese
PRO pts in category: 7
Grading comment
Thank you very much for the explanation. I was taught Japanese in Japan by native Japanese teachers, and they were very strict regarding grammar. I remember 連体詞 and 形容詞, and that's why I was confused seeing 大きい here. I would have written 大きな.
Since the person wrote it is a native Japanese, I thought maybe I remembered wrong. Thanks for reassuring me.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Akiko Kobayashi
21 hrs

agree  Yuriko Daikoku: I'd support the explanation "大きな is a 連体詞 and 大きい is a 形容詞", and not many Japanese will see much difference between two phrases. My personal impression for 大きな is formal and 大きい is colloquial.
21 hrs
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