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scallion

Korean translation: 대파/굵은 파

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:scallion
Korean translation:대파/굵은 파
Entered by: bochkor

19:21 Feb 7, 2009
English to Korean translations [PRO]
Cooking / Culinary / Recipes, Ingredients
English term or phrase: scallion
My dictionary says 3 things for 파 and they are contradicting each other. However, I need a word, which means ONLY scallion, nothing else. The 3 translations are:

1. leek
2. Welsh (spring) onion
3. green onion

From these only green onion is a synonym of scallion. The other two are plain wrong or confusing.

I'm trying to compile a traditional recipe of bulgogi, by the way. So far I have this:

http://www.wildboar.net/multilingual/asian/korean/recipes/bu...

I also don't understand, why recipes mention only 굵은 파 thick scallions, when on every photo and at stores/restaurants I only see the long, green part cut into 2-inch pieces. Nothing thick!

Please, explain in English only! I can read/write Korean, but not speak it, so you can write 1-2 Korean terms for me, but not sentences. Thank you!
bochkor
Local time: 07:18
대파/굵은 파
Explanation:
It remind me of my old class of "language and recognition (culture and classification)" at the university.

Let me say about my experience when I first time went out of Korea.

When I first saw leeks, I thought they were "파". But They weren't.

They were too tough for me. They were not I wanted. I wanted "파".


In Korean, the vegetable, "파", have a roughly two meanings.

I.
One of the species "파". This is not a scientific classification of plants. It is a cultural definition. This definition "파" includes:

(1) "대파" or "굵은파", in Korean means "big 파" or "thick 파" (in English, "scallions" or "green onions")
(2) "잔파", "가는파" or "쪽파" in Korean "tiny 파", "thin 파" or "particle 파" (in English "spring onions" or "Welsh onions")
(3) "쪽파" means sometimes "shallot".
(4) "양파" in Korean "Western 파" (in English onions)

II.
If you say "파" in Korean in everyday life, it definitely means "scallions" or "green onions". That's because Koreans consume a large quantity of "파(scallions)" everyday. If you want to tell "파(scallions)" from other "파 I-2,3,4", you should say "대파" or "굵은파"


In one sense, the dic is right. but in the other sense, the dic does not reflect the real semantics of "파".

What I want to say is the recognition of plant classification is differently organised from the English speaking word.

You can see "양파"(Western 파, in English onions), "파" is a overarching criteria which includes similar kinds(at least Koreans think similar kinds). So it is a kind of "파" in their sense.

But I think in the English speaking word, those kinds of vegetables which have a overarching classification concept are onions.

While Korean conceptualisation of "파" include "onions", the English "onion" concept can extend its meanings.

For example, onions can be other vegetables with adjectives or nouns. ex) spring xxx, Welsh xxx, green xxx.

I suppose, maybe in the long future, other types of onions would be created in the English speaking word.
Of course, other types of "파" would be coined in the Korean speaking word.



In scientifically speaking, two classification is not quiet right since onion and 파 is not a overarching species. But it is culturally classified. I think we can understand the usage of words more exactly once we get to know the context.


Sorry for the long sentences.
Selected response from:

English2Korean
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:18
Grading comment
I checked out all photos for 대파, 굵은파, 잔파, 가는파 and 쪽파 under Korean Gogle Images and I'm going crazy, because all of them looked alike and there were thick and thin ones in both groups, so I really can't decide, unless I go to a Korean supermarket and see both with my own eyes. At least none of them looked like chives or leeks or shallots, so that's good. Even if one group was a little bigger, than the other, I think, the difference is very small and that it's not just me, who is confused. Let's see, what they say at the Korean supermarket!

Anyway, thank you all for your input! And I hope, I'm right that it's the scallion (the bigger size), which is used in bulgogi. At least 1 recipe says 대파, the others just say 파.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5푸른 파 (중간 굵기의)/보통 굵은 푸른 파
Joon Oh
5대파/굵은 파
English2Korean
5대파
Seunghee Yoo
4파
chase69 (X)
3대파
Jason Kang


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
푸른 파 (중간 굵기의)/보통 굵은 푸른 파


Explanation:
As you see the Michaelis dictionary (please see below mentioned), you can find "줄기가 길고 잎이 푸른 양파", but right would be "길고 조금 굵은 푸른 파":

scallion
<식물> 골파류의 파(shallot), 부추류, 줄기가 길고 잎이 푸른 양파.
(http://kr.dictionary.search.yahoo.com/search/dictionaryp?sub...

In this case, we cannot call it as 양파 (onion) once it looks like more 파 (I think 양파 is wrong translation because it is onion), but just a little thicker and longer than normal 파 that is thinner and shorter than scallion.
If you see the picture in http://www.simonsearch.co.kr/photos /?at=view&azi=7525&vimg=006b3be6070b1eb336df2ed331f4ee5e06c.l.jpg or your example of site, you can realize easier : thicker and long gree scallion.

But, actually, I don't mind the size of 파, because I have tried all of kind of size of 파 when I make 불고기 for my family, and the taste is same, but you should use always "green part" of 파 because green part and white part of 파 make different taste. That is why I can call the scallion as 푸른 파 or 종간 굵은 푸른 파 or 보통 굵은 푸른 파

Joon Oh
Brazil
Local time: 08:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in KoreanKorean, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
대파/굵은 파


Explanation:
It remind me of my old class of "language and recognition (culture and classification)" at the university.

Let me say about my experience when I first time went out of Korea.

When I first saw leeks, I thought they were "파". But They weren't.

They were too tough for me. They were not I wanted. I wanted "파".


In Korean, the vegetable, "파", have a roughly two meanings.

I.
One of the species "파". This is not a scientific classification of plants. It is a cultural definition. This definition "파" includes:

(1) "대파" or "굵은파", in Korean means "big 파" or "thick 파" (in English, "scallions" or "green onions")
(2) "잔파", "가는파" or "쪽파" in Korean "tiny 파", "thin 파" or "particle 파" (in English "spring onions" or "Welsh onions")
(3) "쪽파" means sometimes "shallot".
(4) "양파" in Korean "Western 파" (in English onions)

II.
If you say "파" in Korean in everyday life, it definitely means "scallions" or "green onions". That's because Koreans consume a large quantity of "파(scallions)" everyday. If you want to tell "파(scallions)" from other "파 I-2,3,4", you should say "대파" or "굵은파"


In one sense, the dic is right. but in the other sense, the dic does not reflect the real semantics of "파".

What I want to say is the recognition of plant classification is differently organised from the English speaking word.

You can see "양파"(Western 파, in English onions), "파" is a overarching criteria which includes similar kinds(at least Koreans think similar kinds). So it is a kind of "파" in their sense.

But I think in the English speaking word, those kinds of vegetables which have a overarching classification concept are onions.

While Korean conceptualisation of "파" include "onions", the English "onion" concept can extend its meanings.

For example, onions can be other vegetables with adjectives or nouns. ex) spring xxx, Welsh xxx, green xxx.

I suppose, maybe in the long future, other types of onions would be created in the English speaking word.
Of course, other types of "파" would be coined in the Korean speaking word.



In scientifically speaking, two classification is not quiet right since onion and 파 is not a overarching species. But it is culturally classified. I think we can understand the usage of words more exactly once we get to know the context.


Sorry for the long sentences.

English2Korean
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in KoreanKorean
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I checked out all photos for 대파, 굵은파, 잔파, 가는파 and 쪽파 under Korean Gogle Images and I'm going crazy, because all of them looked alike and there were thick and thin ones in both groups, so I really can't decide, unless I go to a Korean supermarket and see both with my own eyes. At least none of them looked like chives or leeks or shallots, so that's good. Even if one group was a little bigger, than the other, I think, the difference is very small and that it's not just me, who is confused. Let's see, what they say at the Korean supermarket!

Anyway, thank you all for your input! And I hope, I'm right that it's the scallion (the bigger size), which is used in bulgogi. At least 1 recipe says 대파, the others just say 파.
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
대파


Explanation:
As you know, culinary terms are among the most difficult ones to translate. Please refer to the Wiki site I linked. If 'scallion' is the plant in the photo, it is undoubtedly '대파' in Korean.

The reason why we refer to it as '대파(굵은 파)' is, there is a contrast condiment '쪽파'. I did not find the English word for it for now, as I have not enough time. But if you want, I will look for it later.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-02-07 20:25:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

1. Yes, you were right. 2. Yes! 3. 굵은 파 = 대파, and 'thick' in this case, is a relative concept. 4. I will look for the images and some more about '쪽파', but I do not have time for now.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2009-02-08 00:18:05 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Anyway, in any recipe, the term '굵은 파' won't be used. '대파' is exact and most popular term.


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scallion
Jason Kang
Canada
Local time: 04:18
Native speaker of: Native in KoreanKorean
Notes to answerer
Asker: 1. Am I assuming corectly that 파 doesn't specifically mean scallion (as in the Wikipedia list's Korean example), but rather a collective term for the onion family? 2. If my assumption above is true, then 대파 would be the specific and only term for scallion, right? (Yes, the picture is exactly that.) 3. But I have a problem with 굵은 파, which you put in brackets, because 굵은 = thick. However, a scallion is not thick compared to a leek. But compared to a chive 골파 it would be thin, of course. 4. I have no idea, what 쪽파 is and couldn't find it anywhere. Is it some kind of onion, though? Does 쪽 mean small, little or thin maybe?

Asker: I meant: But compared to a chive 골파 it would be thick, of course.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  English2Korean: 쪽파 is closest to 'spring onion'. Chive is closer to 부추 (though not exactly the same) rather than to 파.
3 hrs
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127 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
대파


Explanation:
As someone who loves cooking and read hundreds of cooking books in Korean, I'm very sure that what you are looking for is "대파". You don't really see the word "굵은 파" in cooking books these days, because "대파" is the word that is most commonly used and EVERYONE will know what it means when it's used.

I don't think what the dictionary says really matters here, as long as the Korean word, 대파, is the one that is described in the picture in the website you posted. Plus, I would most definitely use 대파 for 불고기, not 쪽파, 가는파, 잔파, none of those. And I'm very sure evey moms will agree with me!
It's simply because 대파 is the most traditional and common ingredient for 불고기, as shown in the picutre in your website.

Hope this helps!




Seunghee Yoo
Local time: 20:18
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in KoreanKorean
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2177 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
파


Explanation:
As you pointed out, 파 comes in a variety of thickness and size, as would tomatoes. However, the one most often used in traditional Korean recipes as part of a spice mixture is the larger 대파. Marinade for 불고기 would call for a minced (preferably white part) of 대파 although many cooks add sliced green parts of either 대파 or smaller varieties like 중파 or 쪽파.

In general I can say that scallion means the smaller 쪽파 or 중파.

chase69 (X)
South Korea
Local time: 20:18
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in KoreanKorean
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