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ficelle

Polish translation: "ficelle"

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13:36 Sep 24, 2005
English to Polish translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / theory of literature
English term or phrase: ficelle
James's reference to Ariadne comes just after Mrs. Assingham, one of James's most brilliant "ficelles," or auxiliary characters, has smashed the bowl and has left Maggie to confront her adulterous husband and to offer him the "help" of a delay.

mowa o "The Golden Bowl" Henrego Jamesa
problem jest natury podwójnej:
1) co to dokladnie znaczy?
2) jak zachowac; zwiazek z francuskim znaczeniem "sznurek" (które jest pozniej potrzebne)?

pozdrawiam, KH
Krzysztof Hoffmann
Local time: 21:07
Polish translation:"ficelle"
Explanation:
Wg definicji poniżej, "ficelle" to termin ukuty wła¶nie przez Jamesa.
Chyba zostawiłabym w oryginale + przypis/wyjasnienie, że z francuskiego itd.

Ficelle character.
From the French word for 'string,' a term used by Henry James to denote a character who exists simply to move the plot or drama from place to place. In Shakespeare's "Hamlet," Rosencranz and Guildenstern are ficelle characters. Vladimir Nabokov called them peri characters.
http://sfwa.org/writing/glossary.html

ficelle
(French)device; James uses this word to indicate a character who is invented largely for the convenience of the author (compare Alfred Hitchcock’s ‘MacGuffin’ in his films)
(literally: a piece of string, particularly one used in to operate a marionette; or, a small stick of bread; also used in colloquialisms, which may have influenced James: ‘ficelle du métier’ = tricks of the trade and ‘connaître ficelle du métier’ = to know the ropes)
http://www.henryjames.org.uk/notes/ficelle.htm

ficelle - puppet string; James's term for a confidante
http://www.stanford.edu/~csewell/culture/litterms.htm (w "minor Literary Terms")

...Maria Gostrey, an important mediating character in the book – or ficelle as James would have it...
www.psa.ac.uk/cps/1996/osull.pdf

a tu sam autor o swoich "ficelles":
...Each of these persons is but wheels to the coach; neither belongs to the body of that vehicle, or is for a moment accommodated with a seat inside. There the subject alone is ensconced, in the form of its "hero and heroine," and of the privileged high officials, (xix) say, who ride with the king and queen... Maria Gostrey and Miss Stackpole then are cases, each, of the light ***ficelle***, not of the true agent; they may run beside the coach "for all they are worth," they may cling to it till they are out of breath ... but neither, all the while, so much as gets her foot on the step, neither ceases for a moment to tread the dusty road...
http://www2.newpaltz.edu/~hathawar/portrait1.html
Selected response from:

Joanna Borowska
Poland
Local time: 21:07
Grading comment
Droga Ryfko! Nie po raz pierwszy jestem pod wrazeniem Twoich sledztw translatorskich. Doskonala robota. Brawo! Rozwiazałas jedna z najbardziej tajemniczych zagadek mojego tekstu. Gdybym mogl dalbym Tobie nie 4 punkty ale 40 i 4. Wielkie wyrazy uznania dla tej konkretnej odpowiedzi i calej dzialalnosci na ProZ. KH
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3"ficelle"Joanna Borowska
3ficelle/nić, w±tek
allp
2(stage) device; an artifice; / chwyt; srodek; fortel;Ensor


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
(stage) device; an artifice; / chwyt; srodek; fortel;


Explanation:
Wedlug Shorter Oxford takie jest drugie znaczenie 'ficelle'; pierwszym jest: 'the off-white colour of much string', tutaj raczej nie na miejscu;
Co do oddania tego w j. polskim i jednoczesnie zachowania zwiazku ze 'sznurkiem' ... to nielatwa sprawa;
Proponowalbym : chwyt / srodek / fortel, choc zaden maja one niewiele wspolnego ze sznurkiem;
That's the best I can do;

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 34 mins (2005-09-24 14:11:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...choc maja one niewiele wspolnego etc.

Ensor
Local time: 05:07
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in category: 155
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ficelle/nić, w±tek


Explanation:
To jest francuski wtręt w angielskim tek¶cie - nie tłumaczyłabym tego, samo słowo zostawiłabym jak jest. Natomiast co do jego sensu i użycia, znalazłam co¶ takiego:

http://membres.lycos.fr/myriamn/

czyli ficelles to również ze fuigurki plecione ze sznurka na palcach. Tak, jak pisarz plecie swoje postaci z nici w±tku. Tu jest skojarzenie sznurka z literatur±, i sztuczki też :) My¶lę, że można to wykorzystać przy tych dalszych odniesieniach - postacie splatane z nici wyobraĽni, splatanie w±tku czy co¶ w tym rodzaju.
Eewntualnie jeszcze postać z ksi±żki jako marionetka, sterowana na sznurkach przez autora. Co¶ w tym stylu, zależy jak Ci będzie pasować.


Jeszcze to:
J'aime bien défaire la ficelle des colis. - I love untying (the string on) packages.
Expressions: tirer les ficelles - to pull strings; connaître les ficelles du métier - to know the tricks of the trade; la ficelle est un peu grosse - you can see right through it
http://french.about.com/od/vocabulary/g/ficelle.htm



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 12 mins (2005-09-24 14:49:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

doczytałam rozmowę z Ensorem, 'auxiliary character' to może być 'jedna z drugoplanowych marionetek Jamesa', wprowadzona w konkretnym celu

allp
Poland
Local time: 21:07
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in category: 178
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
"ficelle"


Explanation:
Wg definicji poniżej, "ficelle" to termin ukuty wła¶nie przez Jamesa.
Chyba zostawiłabym w oryginale + przypis/wyjasnienie, że z francuskiego itd.

Ficelle character.
From the French word for 'string,' a term used by Henry James to denote a character who exists simply to move the plot or drama from place to place. In Shakespeare's "Hamlet," Rosencranz and Guildenstern are ficelle characters. Vladimir Nabokov called them peri characters.
http://sfwa.org/writing/glossary.html

ficelle
(French)device; James uses this word to indicate a character who is invented largely for the convenience of the author (compare Alfred Hitchcock’s ‘MacGuffin’ in his films)
(literally: a piece of string, particularly one used in to operate a marionette; or, a small stick of bread; also used in colloquialisms, which may have influenced James: ‘ficelle du métier’ = tricks of the trade and ‘connaître ficelle du métier’ = to know the ropes)
http://www.henryjames.org.uk/notes/ficelle.htm

ficelle - puppet string; James's term for a confidante
http://www.stanford.edu/~csewell/culture/litterms.htm (w "minor Literary Terms")

...Maria Gostrey, an important mediating character in the book – or ficelle as James would have it...
www.psa.ac.uk/cps/1996/osull.pdf

a tu sam autor o swoich "ficelles":
...Each of these persons is but wheels to the coach; neither belongs to the body of that vehicle, or is for a moment accommodated with a seat inside. There the subject alone is ensconced, in the form of its "hero and heroine," and of the privileged high officials, (xix) say, who ride with the king and queen... Maria Gostrey and Miss Stackpole then are cases, each, of the light ***ficelle***, not of the true agent; they may run beside the coach "for all they are worth," they may cling to it till they are out of breath ... but neither, all the while, so much as gets her foot on the step, neither ceases for a moment to tread the dusty road...
http://www2.newpaltz.edu/~hathawar/portrait1.html

Joanna Borowska
Poland
Local time: 21:07
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Polish
PRO pts in category: 191
Grading comment
Droga Ryfko! Nie po raz pierwszy jestem pod wrazeniem Twoich sledztw translatorskich. Doskonala robota. Brawo! Rozwiazałas jedna z najbardziej tajemniczych zagadek mojego tekstu. Gdybym mogl dalbym Tobie nie 4 punkty ale 40 i 4. Wielkie wyrazy uznania dla tej konkretnej odpowiedzi i calej dzialalnosci na ProZ. KH
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