English: Welcome, John the Russian!Russian translation: Ivan Russkiy 
KudoZ The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators ... More  |
|
| GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW) | | English term or phrase: | John the Russian | | Russian translation: | Ivan Russkiy | | Entered by: | Druzz |
| Options:
- Contribute to this entry |
English to Russian translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History | | English term or phrase: Welcome, John the Russian! | | Welcome, John the Russian! |
| | Clarification request(s) and responseNon-ProZ.com (asker): 5:11am Jul 5, 2003: More about "Ivan [John] the Russian"... - Dear Sirs:
I think the correct translation for “Welcome, Ivan the Russian!”
could be “Zdorovo, Ivan Russkiy!”, because the expression
“Ivan the Terrible” is always translated as “Ivan Grozny”,
and not “grozniy Ivan”. In both cases, we have an “appositive”,
not an adjective. My trouble was to know if the appositive (Ivan
the Russian) must be put in any declension case, as it occurs
in Latin “vocative”. Is there such a declension case “vocative”
in Russian, too? But thank you very much for your answers!
This is a fine site!
Evandro da Nobrega,
writer, journalist, editor.
|
|
| | Добро пожаловать, Иоанн Русский ! | Explanation:
John the Russian is most probably St. John the Russian^
St. John was born in the south of Russia of pious Orthodox parents. He was still young when, in 1711, he took part in the battle against the Turks. Sharing the unhappy fate of many other Russian soldiers, the Saint was captured and sold as a slave to a Turkish cavalry commander from the village of Procopion near Caesarea in Asia Minor...
Follow the link to learn more:
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-04 05:42:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
And here is his legend in Russian:
http://www.ioannrus.orthodoxy.ru/Zhitie/index.htm |
| Selected response from:
 Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
| Note from asker to answererKiril refers “Ioann”, an old Slavic form of Ivan (John)
because he thought I was speaking about St. John the Russian. But he, Kiril, was the solely person to put the “adjective” AFTER the name (we are speaking about
“Ivan the Russian” and not “the Russian Ivan [or John]”. Please, see the following additional explanation:
I think the correct translation for “Welcome, Ivan the Russian!” could be “Zdorovo, Ivan Russkiy!”,
or “Dobro pojalovath, Ivan Russkiy!”
because the expression “Ivan the Terrible” is always translated as “Ivan Grozny”, and not “grozniy Ivan”.
In both cases, we have an “appositive”, not an adjective. My trouble was to know if the appositive (Ivan the Russian) must be put in any declension case, as it occurs in Latin “vocative”. Is there such a declension case “vocative” in Russian, too?
But thank you very much for each of the other answerers!
This is a fine site!
Evandro da Nobrega,
writer, journalist, editor,
from Brazil
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
|
3 mins confidence:   peer agreement (net): +2 |
| Добро пожаловать, Иоанн Русский !
Explanation:
John the Russian is most probably St. John the Russian^
St. John was born in the south of Russia of pious Orthodox parents. He was still young when, in 1711, he took part in the battle against the Turks. Sharing the unhappy fate of many other Russian soldiers, the Saint was captured and sold as a slave to a Turkish cavalry commander from the village of Procopion near Caesarea in Asia Minor...
Follow the link to learn more:
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-04 05:42:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
And here is his legend in Russian:
http://www.ioannrus.orthodoxy.ru/Zhitie/index.htm
Reference: http://www.roca.org/OA/39/39g.htm
| Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:  Russian
PRO pts in category: 153
1 corroborated select project
in this pair and field  |
| Note from asker to answererKiril refers “Ioann”, an old Slavic form of Ivan (John)
because he thought I was speaking about St. John the Russian. But he, Kiril, was the solely person to put the “adjective” AFTER the name (we are speaking about
“Ivan the Russian” and not “the Russian Ivan [or John]”. Please, see the following additional explanation:
I think the correct translation for “Welcome, Ivan the Russian!” could be “Zdorovo, Ivan Russkiy!”,
or “Dobro pojalovath, Ivan Russkiy!”
because the expression “Ivan the Terrible” is always translated as “Ivan Grozny”, and not “grozniy Ivan”.
In both cases, we have an “appositive”, not an adjective. My trouble was to know if the appositive (Ivan the Russian) must be put in any declension case, as it occurs in Latin “vocative”. Is there such a declension case “vocative” in Russian, too?
But thank you very much for each of the other answerers!
This is a fine site!
Evandro da Nobrega,
writer, journalist, editor,
from Brazil
|
|
18 mins confidence: |
| Здорово, русский Ваня!
Explanation:
А мне почему-то так подумалось.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2003-07-04 05:55:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Здорово, русский Иван!
| Yuri Smirnov
Belarus
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:  Belarusian, Russian
PRO pts in category: 12
|
|
| | Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) |
14 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +1 |
| Добро пожаловать/Приходи, Русский Джон/ Иван!
Explanation:
Кирилл правильно сказал: примеров с John the Russian, почти нет. Но зато есть персонажи анекдотов - Ivan the Russian и John the American.
Откуда мы знаем, откуда Аскер взял эту фразу? Может быть это из анекдотов? По-моему, при недостатке информации надо перевести максимально близко, чтоб не обмишулиться ненароком.
Вот например, анекдот с этими персонажами:
I said I thought the paradoxes might give a certain freedom. "Yes, we have an enormous freedom," he said (and to this day I don't know if he was making fun of me). "There's something unhealthy about this life, of course, but I've grown so accustomed to it that I could probably never get used to the West. Speaking of freedom, have you heard about John the American and Ivan the Russian? John says: 'You don't have freedom. I can mount my horse, ride up to the White House and call the president an idiot!' 'That's nothing,' Ivan replies, 'where I come from, they call your president an idiot in the newspapers! Listen to the freedom we have: Can you come late for work whenever you want?' John is shocked: 'Of course not!' 'Can you sit at work without doing a thing for days? Can you go on a binge for weeks, without even notifying your boss...?'"
http://www.fsnielsen.com/txt/rus/otec-petr_eng.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-04 20:11:08 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Может быть, здесь нарочно переставили местами - именно \"Русский + Джон\", и в этом весь юмор?
Reference: http://www.fsnielsen.com/txt/rus/otec-petr_eng.htm
| xxxVera Fluhr
France
Native speaker of: Russian, French
PRO pts in category: 8
|
|
| | Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) |
1 day2 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +1 |
| some more comments
Explanation:
I'm still not sure what is the context you need the phrase for, but here are some more comments on your analysis.
1) "Иван Русский" sounds as a personal name, so you may but the adjective after "Иван" only in the case you're refering to a specific person -- a historical person or, say, a character of a book.
2) If you need a generalizing name for an unknown person who typifies a Russian man, you should use "русский Иван" (without capitalizing the first letter in "русский"!) or "русский Ваня" (more suited for a young guy). These expressions are close to English "average Joe" and are quite commonly used in Russian.
For instance, in the context of WWII, "русский Иван" was used when refering to any `Russian soldier'. Also, Nazist soldiers were called in Russian "гансы" or "фрицы" -- the same idea, using the most common German names to denote any soldier in general.
I hope it helps.
By the way, if you will ask questions on the site in future, please, do provide more context at once. The more additional information you give the higher the chances to get the correct and precise answer. As for "руссий Иван", the way you put your question "John the Russian" was really confusing, since you should probably write "Russian Ivan" or something like this. Through the Web, I found no example when they use "John the Russian" refering to an average Russian man, soldier, etc.
| Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 153
1 corroborated select project
in this pair and field |
|
| | Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) |
1 day4 hrs confidence: |
| one more comment
Explanation:
In the tradition of translating and transliterating the Russian names, "John" would point at a historical person; this is a common way to show the "high", archaic style of narration. "Ivan" would refer to a casual modern style.
So, if you wanted to get "russkyi Ivan", it would be "Russian Ivan", and NOT "Russian John" : this sounds really weird for a Russian ear. The only example which I can think about with a "Russian John" can only possibly refer to an American or an Englishman who has lived in Russia for such a long time that almost became naturalised (and this is a rare occasion).
| Alya
Russian Federation
Works in field
Native speaker of: Russian
|
| | Login to enter a peer comment (or grade) |
Return to KudoZ list
|
| |
The translation workplace 
