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¿somos o estamos perdidos?

Spanish translation: estamos perdidos

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:we are lost
Spanish translation:estamos perdidos
Entered by: Ana Juliá
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17:49 Jul 8, 2002
English to Spanish translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
English term or phrase: ¿somos o estamos perdidos?
Que seamos salvos, porque sin Cristo _________ perdidos"

The term "perdidos" here refers to being "lost" as opposed to being saved. My proofer changed it from "somos" to "estamos". Why would "saved" go with "ser" and "perdido" go with "lost?" This is for the foreward of a religious children´s book. Thanks!
Bill Greendyk
United States
Local time: 14:38
estamos perdidos
Explanation:
the verb estar shows the result of a process. "estamos perdidos" means that we were not lost before, but some circumstances changed that.
On the contrary: "somos perdidos" would show a permanent condition, something that existed from the very beginning.
"que seamos salvos" goes with the verb ser because it expresses the desire for permanence.
love
Vasiliki
Selected response from:

Vasiliki Papadimitriou
Local time: 21:38
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody!! What more can I say, the responses are a bit overwhelming. As well as I know no one replying here only does it for the point, I would have liked to award everyone here, for you all helped me. Some day. :-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4estamos perdidosVasiliki Papadimitriou
5 +1Estamos perdidosDolores Vázquez
5estamos perdidos / somos salvos
Ana Juliá
4 +1Estamos perdidos, pero quizá «vamos a la perdición.»Norberto Gimelfarb
4 +1estamos perdidos
Elías Sauza
5estamos perdidosGabriela Torres Gregory
5estar perdidosAurora Humarán
4 +1are we beyond saving or are we simply lost?
Amanda Tozer
4ESTAMOS PERDIDOSgdangelo
4I cannot think of any explanation but...
Leonardo Parachú
1estar perdido es la forma de decirlo, sea en sentido
Mabel Garzón


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
are we beyond saving or are we simply lost?


Explanation:
estar perdido = to be lost.
ser perdido = to be a hopeless/wretched person with no hope of salvation!

espero que te ayude!

Amanda Tozer
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 352

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Aurora Humarán: bien la diferencia!
6 mins
  -> tiene tela la cosa ¿no crees? gracias
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
estamos perdidos


Explanation:
the verb estar shows the result of a process. "estamos perdidos" means that we were not lost before, but some circumstances changed that.
On the contrary: "somos perdidos" would show a permanent condition, something that existed from the very beginning.
"que seamos salvos" goes with the verb ser because it expresses the desire for permanence.
love
Vasiliki

Vasiliki Papadimitriou
Local time: 21:38
PRO pts in pair: 20
Grading comment
Thanks to everybody!! What more can I say, the responses are a bit overwhelming. As well as I know no one replying here only does it for the point, I would have liked to award everyone here, for you all helped me. Some day. :-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Pablo Tarantino
1 min

agree  Nitza Ramos
23 mins

agree  GoodWords: Good explanation; moreover, to me, "somos perdidos" translates (loosely) to "we are a bunch of losers". This is not the sense of "we are lost".
1 hr

agree  ritchi
1 hr
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Estamos perdidos


Explanation:
"Seamos salvos" es una forma literaria que se refiere a "estar libre de pecados", "vivir sin pecar".

"perdidos" se refiere a que la vida "fuera de Dios" no lleva a la Salvación.

Espero que te aclare algo.

Dolores Vázquez
Native speaker of: Native in GalicianGalician, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 2160

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ernesto de Lara: somos perdidos means we are bad
1 min
  -> Thanks!!
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I cannot think of any explanation but...


Explanation:
...usage, Bill. I agree with your editor.

Good luck.

Leonardo Parachú
Local time: 15:38
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 688
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
estar perdido es la forma de decirlo, sea en sentido


Explanation:
estricto o figurado, ser perdido no se dice.

Mabel Garzón
Colombia
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 45
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
estar perdidos


Explanation:
Eso les pasa por tener un sólo verbo para ser y estar ja ja ja !

Hola amigo!

Sin Dios estoy perdida.
Estoy perdida sin tu amor.
Si la guía del tutor estamos perdidos.

Así es nomás, Billy, besos

au

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-08 18:00:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahora Bill... el \"que seamos salvos\"..... está aceptado?
Me \"suena\" extrañísimo... no será \"salvados\"?

Au

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-08 18:14:52 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SE ME ENCENDIÓ LA LAMPARITA:

\"seamos salvos\" debe ser otra vez una construcción de \"estar\"

Uno está a salvo cuando está protegido.

Fijate que este mismo concern que yo te lo comentan más abajo..

Para mí es esa construcción \"estar a salvo\" y \"estar perdidos\"

Au

Aurora Humarán
Argentina
Local time: 15:38
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 524
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ESTAMOS PERDIDOS


Explanation:
"seamos salvos" - it does not sound right - Please send the original text.
In the meantime, my guess is that the sentence goes:
"BE SAVED because without Christ we ARE LOST", i.e.Que SEAMOS SALVADOS porque sin Cristo ESTAMOS PERDIDOS -
La primer frase es una voz pasiva (ser salvado POR ALGUIEN, por la oración, etc).
La segunda frase es TO BE + Predicative que se traduce por ESTAR + PREDICATIVO

My advise: when you have this kind of doubts see the syntax (based on morphology).

Good luck and let us know if you need further help.
Gabriela









gdangelo
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 28
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
estamos perdidos


Explanation:
Will,
The answer is "Because." The verb "to be", as you may know in Spanish corresponds both to "ser" and to "estar".
If that really bothers you, you can also use "be saved" as "estar salvado".
"Estar perdido" means to not knowing where you are standing, lose the track, the path, the righteous way...
"Ser un perdido" happens after you were lost (and means you have decided to go on the wrong path and stay there).

Gabriela Torres Gregory
Mexico
Local time: 13:38
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 82
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
estamos perdidos / somos salvos


Explanation:
Somos salvos se utiliza, aunque suene extraño en español actual, pero en la traducción evangélica de la Biblia es la forma que aparece.
Estar perdido es como se diría en español actual; en la Biblia, en el libro de Números 17:12 dice somos perdidos, pero es español antiguo.

Ana Juliá
Spain
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in pair: 605
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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Estamos perdidos, pero quizá «vamos a la perdición.»


Explanation:
«Espero, niños, que seréis todos salvados, porque sin Cristo vamos a la perdición.»
Lo sobrentendido es que «no podemos salvarnos sin Cristo.»

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-08 18:27:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sí, la razón de que se diga «estamos perdidos» reside en un principio general gramatical español: los pasivos —que se construyen con ser— se usan mucho menos que en inglés. Por lo tanto cabe decirse que las más de las veces uno encontrará un «estar» junto a un participio y las menos, por ende, ser. En este caso, como lo han explicado varios de los que han respondido, hay una posibilidad doble: «estar perdido» tiene aquí un sentido menos definitivo y moral que «ser un perdido», pero además está el artículo indefinido, que es muy importante en este caso y hace que «perdido» deje de ser adjetivo y se transforme en substantivo. Mil perdones por la pedante explicación gramatical y semántica, pero además de traductor, he sido enseñante muchos años. It would take a much longer explanation to make it look simpler, very paradoxically. Good luck. If your reaction to my explanation is: «Get lost», you\'re damn right, fellow.

Norberto Gimelfarb
Switzerland
Local time: 20:38
PRO pts in pair: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Aurora Humarán: sí me parece que más que usar "estar perdidos" habría que parafrasear y usar la palabra "perdición"
6 mins
  -> Gracias por el apoyo a mi moción.
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
estamos perdidos


Explanation:
Existe una diferencia primaria entre ser y estar: ser implica una condición permanente mientras estar, una condición temporal. En este caso se utiliza estar porque existe una restricción (no tener a Cristo) a nuestra condición permenente de ser salvos, por eso "estamos perdidos" ante esa limitante.

Somos salvos (no estamos) porque potencialmente tenemos esa condición permenente. Cuando perdemos ese estado de salvedad entramos a un estado de no salvedad y por eso decimos que "estamos perdidos" (temporalmente).

Elías Sauza
Mexico
Local time: 13:38
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in pair: 2985

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marijke Singer: Tiene razón José Elías. ¡La iglesia quiere que pensemos que estamos salvados para siempre y que la perdición solo será temporaria! Todo depende del punto de vista.
45 mins
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