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fewer and less

Spanish translation: menos y menor (adaptado para el contexto)


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:fewer and less (as comparative math language)
Spanish translation:menos y menor (adaptado para el contexto)
Entered by: María Eugenia Wachtendorff
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

20:58 May 22, 2006
English to Spanish translations [PRO]
Education / Pedagogy / Developing Kindergarteners' Math Understanding
English term or phrase: fewer and less
We next discussed appropriate mathematical language. Tanner, who listed the number of votes that each character received, concluded, "There's more Dorothys, and a little bit of Lions. The Lions are almost to 10. And the other ones are 2s." The inequality of these two columns intrigued Tanner. We saw an opportunity to introduce comparative language, such as FEWER and LESS, to the class. At the same time, we wanted to be supportive so that the children did not feel that what they had said was "wrong."

FEWER = "MENOR QUE" and LESS = "MENOS"?

Thanks in advance for your help!
María Eugenia Wachtendorff
Chile
Local time: 17:12
menos y menor
Explanation:
Por supuesto que sabemos la diferencia entre countable/ uncountable en inglés, pero justamente como la traducción es indistinta en español, entiendo que la pregunta tiene que ver con encontrar dos términos diferenciados para la traducción y estoy de acuerdo con tu propuesta. Suerte y saludos

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-05-22 22:49:27 GMT) Post-grading
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un saludo
Selected response from:

Cecilia Della Croce
Argentina
Local time: 18:12
Grading comment
Me convencieron, Ceci y Cristóbal. ¡Gracias! No me atrevía a hacer una entrada en el glosario, pero creo que usando la cita literal del texto queda suficientemente claro para quienes puedan verlo en el futuro.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3menos y menos
Michael Powers (PhD)
4 +2menos y menor
Cecilia Della Croce
5menos y menos (ej. no aplica al español)
Marina Herrera
4 +1menos que
LIP Translation
3menor y menosCristóbal del Río Faura


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
menos que


Explanation:
los dos se traducen igual

LIP Translation
Spain
Local time: 23:12
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish, Native in GalicianGalician
PRO pts in category: 40

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Elena Robles Sanjuan: Si, yo traduciría "menos que, expresado por las palabras..."
8 hrs
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
menos y menos


Explanation:
MEW, there is no difference in Spanish between "fewer" and "less"

It is an internal rule in English: with count nous, "fewer" and mass nouns "less"

Note: fewer papers = menos papeles

less water = menos agua

When explaining this, if a number can be placed, "fewer" if not "less"


dos tizas = two pieces of chalk

Mike :)

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Note added at 7 mins (2006-05-22 21:06:09 GMT)
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Quite often, when treated as plural in Spanish, an additional word must be added in English to show the plurality treatment: the example of "chalk" or "pieces of chalk" for "tizas" is one such example.

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Note added at 8 mins (2006-05-22 21:07:02 GMT)
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Whether it is "menos que" or "menos de" depends on whether the antecedent is the same ("de" in those cases).

Tiene menos de tres lapicers = dos lapiceros o menos.

Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
Local time: 17:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 235
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you, my friend! Please see my explanation to Marina. mew :)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  María Teresa Taylor Oliver: Exactly ;)
7 mins

agree  brasil420: i second that
37 mins

agree  aless
1 hr
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
menor y menos


Explanation:
Coincido con los colegas en que ambos se traducen igual en español. Pero a los efectos de tu traducción creo que podrías utilizar menor y menos, pues estos son los dos comparativos más o menos equivalentes -según el contexto- que se usan en español, aparte de inferior.

fewer cats = less cats = menos gatos = un número menor de gatos

Cristóbal del Río Faura
Local time: 23:12
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 16
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
menos y menos (ej. no aplica al español)


Explanation:
El contexto es la introducción de "comparative language". En inglés fewer and less se usan para la misma palabra que se usa en español en ambos casos. Por ejemplo, en ingles: He has fewer pennies but he has less water. Fewer es para cosas que se pueden contar y less para cosas que no se pueden contar. Entonces el ejemplo en este texto no tiene aplicación al español porque se refiere a una modalidad linguistica del inglés. En español decimos tiene menos centavos y tiene menos agua. No decimos tiene menos centavos y menor agua como sugieren los otros traductores

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Note added at 40 mins (2006-05-22 21:39:11 GMT)
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This is a case of adaptation rather than translation. If there's no need to explain the difference between fewer and less in Spanish then the sentence has no value if translated for a possibility that doesn't exist. Se podria usar el ejemplo de menos, mucho menos y muchísimo menos porque esos son los comparativos en español

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-05-22 22:24:05 GMT)
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I have been a Math elementary school teacher in English and Spanish. And what the par. uses to show where the phrase appears paints a scenario that wouldn't occur in Spanish: less Dorothy's and a bit of lions. Since the explanation arises from the need to teach the children the correct use of different words applicable to quantities/numbers, using más o menos doesn't set out the reason for such a lesson in math. Más o menos are not the same as fewer or less. Don't know the whole chapter, but it's a segment that could probably be eliminated from the Spanish and nothing would be lost.

Marina Herrera
Local time: 17:12
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 62
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for caring so much, Marina. This paper is for Preschool Education students at Universidad Católica de Chile, and I have to do my very best to make it comprehensible and applicable. Of course it needs adapting, and I think my first idea, as confirmed by Cecilia and Cristóbal, is a good way out. Hope to find you on line next time I need help in this area! :) María Eugenia

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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
menos y menor


Explanation:
Por supuesto que sabemos la diferencia entre countable/ uncountable en inglés, pero justamente como la traducción es indistinta en español, entiendo que la pregunta tiene que ver con encontrar dos términos diferenciados para la traducción y estoy de acuerdo con tu propuesta. Suerte y saludos

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-05-22 22:49:27 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

un saludo

Cecilia Della Croce
Argentina
Local time: 18:12
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 170
Grading comment
Me convencieron, Ceci y Cristóbal. ¡Gracias! No me atrevía a hacer una entrada en el glosario, pero creo que usando la cita literal del texto queda suficientemente claro para quienes puedan verlo en el futuro.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cristóbal del Río Faura: Opino lo mismo
2 mins
  -> gracias, Cristóbal

agree  Stuart Allsop
5 mins
  -> gracias, Stuart
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