Spanish translation: el inglés no es su idioma "materno"
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
English to Spanish translations [PRO] Education / Pedagogy
English term or phrase:English is not your "first" language
as in
"... students must demonstrate that English is their "first" language by providing........"
Do we say in Spanish PRIMERA LENGUA o SEGUNDA LENGUA? o IDIOMA? I generally use LENGUAJE NATIVO to refer to the first language, but what about the people that were born in Spanish speaking countries and were brought over to U.S. when they were 5 or 6 and they learn to speak English flawlessly just like a native speaker, then English is not their first language, no seria SU LENGUAJE NATIVO, isn't it..... PLEASE HELP! my brain is fried!!!!
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 33 mins (2007-10-13 13:55:07 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hace años, en 1976, tuve un profesor buenísimo, chileno, que se llamaba Eduardo Neale-Silva, en la Universidad de Wisconsin, Madison, quien enseñaba niveles posgrados de literatura (poesia) y el nivel más avanzado de "lengua".
Él decía, que normalmente en términos generales, se usa "idioma" - cuando se trata de un agrupamiento, se usa "lengua" - como, por ejemplo, las "lenguaas romances" or las "lenguas germánicas". Y cuando se trataba de una parte específica del idioma, se usaba "lenguaje" , como, por ejemplo, "lenguagje técnico".
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 37 mins (2007-10-13 13:58:57 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Technically, etymologically, yes, "materno" comes from the mother; however, it is what is actually used for a "native" language.
As far as your comment that, "A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday." In this case, English is NOT their 'FIRST" language. The same thing happened with my children. Their first language was Spanish, and they didn't start talking English until they were five years old Their mother (my wife) was Peruvian. Since all their schooling was in English, English is their best language. However, this does NOT make it their first language. BEST or DOMINANT is not the same as FIRST. FIRST refers to chronologically order only.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-13 14:01:48 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
At home we only spoke Spanish - even outside the home. However, when you compare this to the vocabulary and slang and formal language they learn in school, with their peers, among their friernds, in their social life, etc., other than pronunciation and fluency, all four of my children speak English better than Spanish (now they range from 16 to almost 25).
Octavio, I couldn't agree more with you. I find ProZ fascinating also, and I learn a lot from my colleagues here. Glad that I was able to put in my two cents, also.
Michael, I am glad I asked this question, because it created great conversation, and I learned a lot by following and reading the links. Your answer besides that it came first, it really gave the basis to continue with my translation.. I really appreciate your help.. I think that by combining the terms, it worked better with my document.. Thank you everybody, all your suggestions were great.. I am glad I belong to this ProZ network of professionals. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Sólo manifestar que no estoy de acuerdo con las notas de Marina. A mi entender (y como revelan las consultas a diccionarios de inglés), "first language" es sinónimo de "mother tongue", o sea, la primera lengua que aprende una persona en la niñez.
La "segunda lengua" es la lengua de la que se tiene menos dominio PERO que se habla en la comunidad donde vive la persona (i.e. debe ser una comunidad bilingüe).
Lengua extranjera: la lengua que APRENDE (NO que adquiere, que es un proceso natural, sin in
Lengua materna es la que el niño aprende en el hogar aunque nazca y crezca en una comunidad que habla otra lengua.
Primera lengua es la lengua de la que tiene mayor dominio y que puede o no coincidir con la lengua materna.
Octavio, como profesora universitaria en idioma español, puedo decirte que: lenguaje es cualquier sistema de comunicación (Braille, lenguaje de los sordomudos, el lenguaje kinético de las abejas, las lenguas, etc..).
Lengua e idioma son casi sinónimos.
first, second, third, materna, nativa/o, lengua, lenguaje, idioma... wooooww, this is great!!!
15:51 Oct 13, 2007
To all of you, I so much really appreciate your input. This has been very educational and an eye opener... and you all are right... Ya lei todas sus sugerencias y creo que debo tomar en consideración diferentes criterios en relación a la traducción que estoy desarrollando. My document is the international informational sheet of a University for Designers. Being the fact that we are in Los Angeles, and just like Salloz suggested that "modas ideológicas que se imponen en EUA a cada rato, los terminos caen en desuso", y en lo cual está completamente en lo correcto. Here in Los Angeles we have to continuously learn new terms... We are a truly melting pot at least in this region. So I believe that I need to chose a term that has a more general description of the terms that is understood by anybody speaking Spanish around the world, without turning the document into any level of expertise or field, but rather to make it simple and coloquial for the targeted audience.. in this case, new students from other countries wanting to come to Los Angeles to study, so based on everything I have read on your wonderful quotations, and suggestions, I think that I could be safe using "lenguage primario" (w/o quotations). I will not have to get into deciding which to use for SECOND LANGUAGE, because my text does not include that phrase (thank God!) that way I avoid the confusion of MATERNO/A. Also, my document indicates, after asking for "first" (and they have it with quotations) language, they require the submission of transcripts from institutions where they have a system where English is the official language of instruction, or to provide minum scoring after taking a TOEFL test.. What do you think?
La expresión lengua materna, de hecho, tiene equivalentes cognados en muchos idiomas, incluido el inglés: mother tongue. Por alguna de esas modas ideológicas que se imponen en los EUA a cada rato, cayó en desuso, al menos entre la burocracia escolar.
Según la Academia, lengua materna es "la que se habla en un país, respecto de los naturales de él". Hay peores definiciones. ;)
Lengua materna, Octavio, es la principal que adquiere uno desde niño en casa. Desde luego, hay muchas situaciones particulares.
See this Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language
According to this "first language" is an ambiguous term. Therefore, what is it exactly you want to define, the language the student speaks best, or the first language he/she learnt?
In your case, the text says "... students must demonstrate that English is their "first" language by providing...". In this context, unless "provided" is followed by "birth certificate", I understand that it is the language in which they are most fluent.
Hi Octavio. I understand your doubts. I was born and lived in the UK until I was 12. However, I do not consider English my 1st language. On ProZ, when I had to declare my "native" language, I chose Spanish, since I speak it more fluently than English.
Explanation: I live with Spanish people, and I have always heard them saying "lengua materna" o "nativa".
"Native" or "mother" tongue can have more than one meaning... it can be referred to the language a person speak the best, to the language he speaks at home or, in case of people growing up in a bilingual background, the both languages they speak.
I enclose the link to wikipedia, hoping that it will help you.
Explanation: (...) que el inglés es su primera lengua.
El término "primera lengua" es perfectamente válido y mantiene la "ambiguedad" que conlleva "first language" en inglés. Si se refirieran a lengua materna, ¿no hubieran dicho "mother tongue"? Sí, pueden ser sinónimos, pero el hecho es que no queda 100% claro de que sea esto lo que el texto original queira decir... Es por esto que yo prefiero "primera lengua".
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:37:32 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
ej.: "Español seguirá como primera lengua de hispanos, según estudio
El uso del español, actualmente el idioma de preferencia del 74 por ciento de los 40 millones de hispanos de Estados Unidos, se mantendrá durante los próximos 20 años con sólo un leve declive, al 66 por ciento, según un nuevo estudio."
en http://www.terra.com/noticias/articulo/html/act198768.htm
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs (2007-10-13 17:40:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
los estudiantes deben demostrar que dominan totalmente el inglés (la lengua inglesa)
Explanation: Hi Octavio,
I don't know how much of this is actually up to you.
From the context you've provided it seems to me that the student's place of birth or which language he/she learnt first is absolutely irrelevant.
I would suggest (and perhaps even confer with the client) that the phrase is re-termed to better specify the requirement:
that students can read, speak, write and understand English AS IF it was their first language, i.e. in such a way that they will have no problem whatsoever to conduct their studies in English.
Thus, you might want to find a phrase that requires "full competence in the English language, accredited by such or such certifications/qualifications". Above is a suggestion to this end.
My pleasure Octavio. In fact I was just in the process of adding a further note regarding 1st vs. 2nd language.
IMHO, your clients should understand what they are asking for, which is none other than full proficiency.
I hold a University of Cambridge Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults. While this is not the highest degree of English language qualification, you still don't get it by sending in the barcodes off three boxes of Cornflakes! I don't think the U. of C. would deny me a place on one of their courses because English isn't my 1st language... ;O) ;O)
moken Local time: 12:57 Native speaker of: Spanish PRO pts in category: 70
Notes to answerer
Asker: Alvaro, thank you for your great suggestion. I had to make a combo and it reads great!.. I added my changes as suggestions on a notes page that I attached to the document to help the client see different choices.. It always work well for me and they appreciate it. You are right a lot of interpreting has to be done, instead only translating.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 33 mins (2007-10-13 13:55:07 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hace años, en 1976, tuve un profesor buenísimo, chileno, que se llamaba Eduardo Neale-Silva, en la Universidad de Wisconsin, Madison, quien enseñaba niveles posgrados de literatura (poesia) y el nivel más avanzado de "lengua".
Él decía, que normalmente en términos generales, se usa "idioma" - cuando se trata de un agrupamiento, se usa "lengua" - como, por ejemplo, las "lenguaas romances" or las "lenguas germánicas". Y cuando se trataba de una parte específica del idioma, se usaba "lenguaje" , como, por ejemplo, "lenguagje técnico".
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 37 mins (2007-10-13 13:58:57 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Technically, etymologically, yes, "materno" comes from the mother; however, it is what is actually used for a "native" language.
As far as your comment that, "A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday." In this case, English is NOT their 'FIRST" language. The same thing happened with my children. Their first language was Spanish, and they didn't start talking English until they were five years old Their mother (my wife) was Peruvian. Since all their schooling was in English, English is their best language. However, this does NOT make it their first language. BEST or DOMINANT is not the same as FIRST. FIRST refers to chronologically order only.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 40 mins (2007-10-13 14:01:48 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
At home we only spoke Spanish - even outside the home. However, when you compare this to the vocabulary and slang and formal language they learn in school, with their peers, among their friernds, in their social life, etc., other than pronunciation and fluency, all four of my children speak English better than Spanish (now they range from 16 to almost 25).
Octavio, I couldn't agree more with you. I find ProZ fascinating also, and I learn a lot from my colleagues here. Glad that I was able to put in my two cents, also.
Mike :)
Michael Powers (PhD) United States Local time: 07:57 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 235
Grading comment
Michael, I am glad I asked this question, because it created great conversation, and I learned a lot by following and reading the links. Your answer besides that it came first, it really gave the basis to continue with my translation.. I really appreciate your help.. I think that by combining the terms, it worked better with my document.. Thank you everybody, all your suggestions were great.. I am glad I belong to this ProZ network of professionals.
Notes to answerer
Asker: so if you say "materno" for "first", what do you say when people talk about "second" language as in English as a Second Language ESL?
Asker: Please help me understand here. Doesn't "materno" indicates that "was born with" or that comes from the "mother" (Im really confused now).. A lot of people, at least in Los Angeles speak perfect English, but they weren't born with it. It is still a second language, but they use it as a "FIRST" language since they speak it everyday. Just for my own sake, please.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
